Releases

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=28305
Bob Buxton Truck Tow Accident Video

Dave Hopkins - 2013/02/10 17:17:41 UTC

Thanks for posting the video there is much to be learned

Yes. SO much.

- Always route the bridle UNDER the basetube. (I just can't stress that enough.)

- NEVER use a release that you'll be able to blow in an emergency. That shit doesn't work. If it did, we'd be using it everywhere. Stick with Industry Standard equipment you KNOW won't work because that's what we use everywhere so it has a really long track record.

There was time to do many things.

None of which, of course, include the dope on the rope releasing himself.

First, the winch operator should have seen the line over the base tube before launch . Was he a pilot?

No fuckin' way!
- ANYONE who's a PILOT (except, of course, the guy under the glider) would have spotted that problem in an instant.
- Noting that the bridle was routed over - instead of under - the bar would simply be far beyond the capabilities of anyone who ISN'T a PILOT.

Was he briefed on how everything should look before and during the launch. Was he briefed when to release pressure.

No, by the time they finished the briefing on how to stare at the pressure gauge no matter what the soaring window was just about over.

At the first sign of trouble he should have free wheeled the reel. He should also have a kill switch for the truck. An other question , did the winch have an instant pressure release handle. I mean instant, not a knob to turn to adjust pressure. If not I would not fly with it. I have seen many that don't. Of course the hook knife as a backup.

How 'bout a release the guy on the glider can actually use when he needs to as a primary? Just kidding.

The pilot had time to release.

The pilot had time to change his vario batteries.

Why didn't he release?

Because he only had two hands and he was flying a system designed for someone with three.

This a good example of why weak links don't protect us from a lockout using a payout winch.

Whereas they're EXCELLENT protection from a lockout on aero - as Roy Messing demonstrated so clearly at Whitewater on 2009/08/31. And they're also totally awesome at protecting us from excessive angles of attack - as Zack Marzec demonstrated at Quest on 2013/02/02.

The winch operator is our only protection they need to be well briefed on when to release pressure.

Since we've already eliminated the pilot's release as a viable option.

The weak link would have failed had this been aerotow.

Of course it would. It's physically impossible for an aerotowed glider to hit the ground in a low level lockout with the weak link still intact. And it's also physically impossible for a standard aerotow weak link to hold long enough in a lockout to leave the glider incapable of recovering in time for a textbook standup landing.

I'm not saying aerotow is safer just that the weak link is more effective if a lockout gets started.

Focal point of a safe towing system dude. Guaranteed to keep you from getting into too much trouble.
Hey! Did anybody think of locking up the winch in a low level lockout so the payout weak link will be just as effective as an aero weak link?

As always when the ground is coming up fast, get off the base bar , Grab the uprights and pull your butt into the frame and make the glider take the impact.

Yeah, I was gonna say something about that. Whenever you've misrouted your bridle, have an inaccessible release, and are bobbing around behind a truck with a couple of bozos totally asleep at the switch you should stop flying the glider and use that opportunity to climb up into the control frame. Hard to imagine how he missed out on that training.

This is pet peeve of mine. Telling pilots to let go of the glider in a sever crash is wrong! Climbing into the bar has saved my life at least 5 times over the yrs.

Have you given any thought to seeing how continuing to fly the glider instead of climbing into the control bar might have worked? Is that what you do in your car whenever you see a telephone pole you might hit? Dive into the back seat so when you do hit it your situation will be a lot more survivable?

Sure I have let go of the bars a hundred times to save the downtubes but in a real high energy impact I know what to do.

Ya know sumpin', Dave... If you've had to let go of the downtubes hundreds of times to save them and are an expert at reacting in real high energy impacts I think you might wanna reconsider some of your fundamental approaches to this aviation thing.

This is reminding me a lot of people who a really great at reacting to unhooked launches and standard aerotow weak link successes.

miguel - 2012/01/20 01:40:10 UTC

Research "Dave Hopkins" if you are not conducting jihad against him. He piled a Mitchell wing into the rocks on the side of the hill at McClure at 60-70mph. Walked away with trivial minor injuries.

I'm gonna be conducting a jihad against him.

One of those crashes was a lockout on a payout winch. The operator released pressure.

And you STILL crashed? I guess an instant elimination of towline tension only ensures a safe timely regain of control if it's effected by a weak link failure.

That is what saved me. I was knocked out but was uninjured because my head was up and I hit the ground with my lower body. it's made for a beating.

So...

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=25015
Zippy pounds in

Davis Straub - 2011/09/02 18:37:09 UTC

Concussions are in fact very serious and have life long effects. The last time I was knocked out what in 9th grade football. I have felt the effects of that ever since. It changes your wiring.

Just how many times have you been knocked out after climbing into the control frame? Do you think there might be some kind of correlation between the number of times you've been knocked out and your propensity to keep climbing into the control frame at the expense of continuing to fly the glider?

And sumpin' else, Dave... How do you manage to get into a dangerous low level lockout on a payout winch? Are you friends with John Woiwode or Peter Birren?

heal fast Bob., spring is coming.

Yeah Dave...

Scott Buxton - 2013/02/10 10:17:16 UTC

Bob is still recovering at Health South Rehab Facility in Glendale. Bob suffered a severe head injury (bleeding on the brain). He still has a long road ahead of him in recovering.

He's gonna have a speedy recovery 'cause everyone's wishing him one. Two or three more well-wishes and denials of reality and he should be in tiptop shape by mid April.

I hope I'm not being too insensitive here

No... Just stunningly clueless.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=28305
Bob Buxton Truck Tow Accident Video

Dan Lukaszewicz - 2013/02/10 22:29:06 UTC

This video is a reminder that no system of launching is fool proof.

He didn't use an established launch system. He modified it.

I applaud the pilot for setting his pride aside and posting it.

Fuck that.

- The fact that the bridle was over the basetube was public knowledge by the evening of the crash.

- Anybody who flies with pride is an accident waiting to happen.

- Any pride he might have harbored before that flight would've permanently evaporated about eight seconds prior to impact.

- Who are you expecting to piss all over the guy 'cause he misrouted the bridle - especially after the price he's paid - and will continue to pay for the rest of his life?

Here are my thoughts on truck towing.

You trained at Manquin - so I can tell you right now they won't be worth much.

It is a bit rare because it takes a lot of real estate. The mile-long tow road at Blue Sky yields launches that are 700-1200 ft AGL, depending on head wind. It's possible to get higher by step towing (the truck would tow around a circuit and the pilot follows). I've never done that and it just seems risky.

That's not STEP towing. That's CIRCUIT. And it's impossible to step tow behind a truck 'cause those winches are PAYOUT rather than POWERED.

Steve Wendt, the owner of Blue Sky, is really conservative, read safe.

Yeah, sure.

- Releases inaccessible in emergencies - like the one that resulted in Bob's brain being pulped outside of Phoenix and the one that resulted in Holly's face being shattered on Steve's runway.

- Standard aerotow weak links - like the one that just killed Zack Marzec a week and a half ago.

- Truck tow releases with lanyards going to the wrist so that when the glider pitches up the glider pops off tow - like Carlos Weill did at Manquin and which is what got Brad Anderson and Eric Aasletten killed in 1990.

- Strong emphasis on hang checks - like the one everybody on the Whitwell launch thought Steve's student Bill Priday had done on the early afternoon of 2005/10/01.

I like that.

Everybody does. Steve's THE BEST. Ask anybody - even Holly.

Since the pilot starts prone there is no chance of launching unhooked.

And why bother teaching people to tighten their suspension just before running off a cliff so there will be no chance of launching unhooked in that environment either.

There is no chance of stumbling or poping the nose on launch.

Yeah, but platform towing utilizes more complex hardware than any other launch method so that automatically means it's more dangerous.

The truck comes up to speed and sounds the horn to signal launch velocity. Then it's a matter of pulling the release...

With both hands on the basetube using hardware that actually works - which is the only place you're gonna see something like that in mainstream US hang gliding.
Say there, Lucky... Did you notice that Bob had NO PROBLEM WHATSOEVER blowing THAT release - even with the misrouted bridle?

...and flying off the truck.

From which point on you are without a means of safely releasing. So you better hope that nothing's gonna go wrong for the next couple hundred feet.

We fly with extra speed for the first hundred feet or so to punch through any rotor or developing thermals.

And hope you make it 'cause if you don't and need to release you're as fucked as Bob was with his misrouted bridle.

Once on tow the forces are lighter than aerotow and there is no tug to follow. In a cross wind we accept drift and just keep the nose and tow rope pointed toward the truck.

No! You should fight it and keep the glider straight behind the truck at all times. Then when you come out of you're coma you can get together with Peter Birren and talk about how much safer foot launch static towing is.

With truck tows I can do 4-5 tows in an afternoon without breaking down. Some guys have done 10 or more in a day. That gives a lot of...

...foot...

...landing practice.

Which is critically important when you're gonna be doing most of your flying at places like Manquin, Ridgely, Woodstock.

The cost at Blue Sky is about $10 when you buy tows in bulk (20 pack).

But then you have to be in contact with...

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=17404
Aerotow barrel release - straight or curved pin?

Jim Rooney - 2010/05/31 01:53:13 UTC

BTW, Steve Wendt is exceptionally knowledgeable. Hell, he's the one that signed off my instructor rating.

...Steve Wendt and a bunch of douchebags who think he's a really great guy.

Give it a try if you get a chance. I think you'll like it.

I did my first truck tows behind the sonuvabitch. I never wanna see him again.

BTW, foot launching from a steep ramp like Hensens...

Henson.

...or Lookout is my second favorite launch method.

Yep. Hard to fuck those up for similar reasons. But if you're going to then be sure to talk to Dave Hopkins about how to climb into the control frame prior to impact. Too bad Chris Thale missed out on that one.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=28305
Bob Buxton Truck Tow Accident Video

Allen Sparks - 2013/02/11 00:13:34 UTC

Best wishes for a full recovery for Bob.

Yeah, I think wishing is about all we can do at this point. And I wish that a third of a century ago when hang glider towing was getting a global overhaul that the asshole who triggered it had recognized that the ability to release while maintaining full control of the glider at all times was safety standard worth mentioning - even if the system DOES incorporate a Marzec Link.

Ditto on the checklist - I learned from Steve Wendt.

Can't do much better than that. Hell, he's the one that signed off your buddy Rooney's instructor rating.

I would not tow with an operator who doesn't use one.

But you'd tow with an operator who thinks releases that stink on ice are just fine because there's just no problem on tow that can't be solved with a three quarter G weak link.

Yeah, the pilot should have done it right ....

but ...

the operator / observer should have gone through the checklist, and verified the pilot's connection to the glider, inspected the bridle and release, and inspected the proper routing of the bridle and connection to the tow system before the tow commenced.

And...

http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=5659
Preflight people, please?

Danny Brotto - 2012/12/21 13:10:52 UTC

This is a cute video link posted on the ozreport.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZLTDPeB55ek


Is it just me or is the gal's helmet not buckled? The straps seem to be blowing in the wind. I'm impressed that it stayed on!

Make sure that helmet's buckled!

13302
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7395/13626862385_ae79ba296a_o.png


You just never know when your Manquin Link is gonna dump you into a tailslide at 150 feet.

An abort signal should be established.

They HAD an abort signal. The glider locked out to its right and slammed in. And the observer IMMEDIATELY called, "Cut! Stop! Stop! Stop! Stop! He's hurt. He's hurt. Stop, stop, stop, stop." And the driver got the truck fully stopped a mere ten seconds after impact.

The opportunity to dump pressure and abort was missed.

Better late than never.

I'd be interested in the type and position of the release.

Same thing Steve Wendt uses - three-string, inaccessible. Check one out next time you drop by Blue Sky.

It looked to me like the observer was watching something other than the pilot.

Yeah, but constant tension is one of the Skyting Criteria... So what are ya gonna do?

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=28305
Bob Buxton Truck Tow Accident Video

Nic Welbourn - 2013/02/11 01:14:55 UTC
Canberra

Big kudos to the pilot who posted this incident so we can all learn, thankyou!

BULL FUCKING SHIT. It's like watching somebody with no steering wheel and no brakes trying to drive down a mountain road with lotsa switchbacks.

Spoiler Alert!

Unhappy ending.

Guest - 2013/02/10 21:05:47 UTC

It appears that the winch operator is not even watching the glider! Or am I seeing a distorted view through a fisheye? Is anyone watching the glider? Should someone be watching the glider? I'm confused...

I thought the same...!

Duh.

He didn't seem to react at all until he *noticed* the pilot had smacked-in...?!?

Is it just me (one with limited ground and aerotow experience), or does it seem CRAZY that nobody on the ground is ready to release or at least stop the power when (not if) a mishap occurs?

- Wanna say anything about the guy on the glider having a window of at least six seconds during which the glider was in pretty good shape control-wise and being totally incapable of releasing himself? Just kidding.

- A mishap which results in a low level lockout must always be prepared and equipped for but it should NEVER happen.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=28305
Bob Buxton Truck Tow Accident Video

Matt Christensen - 2013/02/11 01:44:40 UTC
Vienna, Virginia

I can't speak for anyone elses truck towing operation, as I have only truck towed at Blue Sky. Having said that, I would say that in my opinion, there isn't a safer (more relaxing) way to get a 1000' off the ground than to truck tow at Blue Sky.

So what do you think Steve's doing better than other folk?

Don't get me wrong, I love foot launching and aero towing, but Steve has such a refined operation it is rediculous how dialed in he is with truck towing. As it has already been said here, you really just keep the glider pointed at the truck.

If his operation is so fucking refined and he's so fucking dialed it, how come...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ilD-0Mw_9qg

18-3003


http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=18868
Almost lockout

Avolare 2010/09/03 23:18:22 UTC
North Carolina

The weak link should break with a lockout.

...his students:
- think that the weak link should break - in time to keep them healthy - on a payout tow; and
- given what that asshole is putting people up on in the way of a weak link, obviously believe that that's its purpose.

As far as Bob's incident, I give him props for sharing this incident for others to learn from.

Yeah dude, let's all LEARN from this. Fill in the minor gaps left after your excellent training at Manquin.

My take away from the incident is this, fly the glider, fly the glider, fly the glider. There is no doubt that the tow line over the base tube would be bad, but I didn't see the type of corrective inputs made that could have helped mitigate the negative outcome.

Yep. This guy obviously lacked a sufficient degree of righteous stuff.

In this incident, the pilot definately could have released from tow rather than flying into the ground.

The way you, of course, would have.

When rigged properly, truck towing is so easy that Bob was probably really caught off guard by this and froze a bit.

Yep. For NINE SECONDS. Same way Roy Messing "just froze" a bit in the seconds prior to his fatal impact. This is all very tragic but these certainly weren't a situations that any of US would've had any trouble dealing with.

For me this is a great reminder to be diligent in my preflight and always be prepared for the unexpected.

By, perhaps, equipping with a release system that can be actuated in an emergency? Just kidding.

Thanks for sharing this and please pass my best on to Bob in a quick and full recovery.

Cheers,
Matt

Asshole.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=28305
Bob Buxton Truck Tow Accident Video

Guest - 2013/02/11 01:46:29 UTC

Yes, it seemed the winch operator only noticed the crash when it showed on the tension gauge. That just don't seem right...

Why would it have shown on any gauge?

Probably the only gauge they have is showing the hydraulic brake pressure and even a tension gauge won't show much going on as long as the drum's turning because it's a constant tension system.

If you wanna get the best idea of what's going on with the fuckin' glider then watch the fuckin' glider.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=31053
Poll on releases

Davis Straub - 2013/02/14 00:41:55 UTC

Do you have confidence in your current release method?

1) Yes, I believe in my release.

Matt Taber - 2009/07/12

The new GT aerotow release, new as of July 11th 2009, is designed to be used with a V bridle and a 130-pound green stripe Dacron tournament fishing line weak link.

Off the bottom of the FAA legal range for any glider with a max certified operating weight of 283 pounds or more - such as, for example, a U2 145 or Sport 2 155.

At this time it is not recommended to use this release with a higher value weak link.

So we'll let you know when the FAA shows up so you can swap in something safe and legal until they're gone but ferchrisake DON'T LAUNCH WITH IT!

We are confident that with an ultimate load of 130 pounds at the release point, the new GT aerotow release works better than all cable releases that we have experience with.

Like, for example, this piece of shit from Wallaby:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pg65528o5-U

2602
http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5549/13995699911_14ebe6da3f_o.png


that we use on our tandems and we don't wanna kill our instructors. After our students are flying solo, however, we can always get away with using the "just froze" or "tried to save a bad situation instead of pinning off and trying again" stamps on the fatality report form.

2) No, I am not confident in my release.

For myself, FUCK NO! - Are you out of your mind! For my customers, We are confident that with an ultimate load of 130 pounds at the release point, the new GT aerotow release works better than all cable releases that we have experience with.

3) My current release could be better.

The one I sell or the one I use? The one I sell is a death trap but the one I use works well enough most of the time and I've got a hook knife so what the fuck.

4) Heck I don't know, I just use what they gave me.

But they're all USHGA certified instructors and it's a very reputable Wills Wing dealership so I know I can trust them.

So what the fuck is the point of this poll, Davis? It's totally meaningless at best until we AT LEAST know what the release system IS.

And we've just had this video:

Bob Buxton accident
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2oeb0nNIKs
Scott Buxton - 2013/02/10
dead
http://www.kitestrings.org/post5902.html#p5902
016-04308
http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3799/13746342624_c9b015f814_o.png


http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2809/13746340634_a74b33d285_o.png
022-04610

posted and VIRTUALLY NO ONE sees any problem whatsoever with the fact that the guy has a window to abort that lasts half the afternoon and make this a non event and CAN'T. They believe and are confident in this release and have NO INTEREST in making it or getting anything better.

And as far as aerotowing is concerned...

People like me, Steve Kinsley, Joe Street, and Antoine have busted our asses developing and making available stuff a thousand times better than you and your pigfucker buddies at Quest, Ridgely, Manquin, Lockout perpetrate on the public but virtually none of it is getting into circulation so OBVIOUSLY the majority of these brain dead cud chewers are totally cool with what's been perfected over the course of the past twenty years.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=28452
advice please!!

Tim May - 2013/02/25 15:03:53 UTC
Boston

advice please!!

I'da thunk you'd have noticed by now that Jack and his cult members don't tolerate much in the way of sane advice over there.

Hey guys, I am a H2 going on an aerotowing course in a few weeks.

ALL of them in the US and damn near all in the world are DANGEROUS. You'll probably come through smelling like a rose - like just about everyone does - but you *WILL* *BE* SETTING YOURSELF UP.

I just ordered "towing aloft" which I will read carefully...

EXCELLENT idea! And if you get through more than about three or four pages without realizing that you're looking at a mix of incompetence, inconsistencies, flat out contradictions, stupidity, and lies written by two sleazy industry shills then I highly recommend that you find a new hobby that involves no critical thinking whatsoever and offers no potential for hurting yourself or anyone else - and I'd also highly recommend you quitting your medical practice.

...before going.

If/When you get there ask them why Towing Aloft recommends weak links near, at, and off the bottom of the FAA safety/legal range.

I am just looking for general tips regarding aerotowing...

Then read the FAA's Glider Flying Handbook (online/free). And if ANYBODY tells you ANYTHING that's inconsistent with ANYTHING in that book then tell him to go fuck himself.

...and possibly what to get in terms of equipment when I return...

No fuckin' way in hell would I EVER go up on any of the crap you're gonna find on training gliders or available from tow parks.

1. THIS:

http://www.nanoavionic.com/
http://www.getoffrelease.com/

http://www.nanoavionic.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/Production-Release1.jpg


is the ONLY commercially available safe two point release - and ONLY two point systems are safe. Pick up a copy BEFORE you go anywhere and if anybody insists on you using the equipment they provide tell him to go fuck himself.

2. Your weak link needs to be tied out of 250 pound line, tell the motherfucker on the Dragonfly that if he doesn't comply with FAA aerotowing regulations and use a couple of three hundreds on (for his benefit) BOTH ends of his bridle, you'll report him, and pray you don't get into a situation in which your life is dependent upon Bobby Fucking-Genius Bailey's idiot tow mast breakaway holding.

(I figure if we survive snapping enough of these things the Dragonfly assholes will eventually beef them up to the point at which they're capable of doing the job safely.)

...(for instance LMFP is offering a "aerotow package" comprising a primary and secondary release, and some other stuff (hook knife and other accessories) for $189.

1. Yeah, make sure they include that hook knife. That's gonna be your best hope for survival in any package Matt sells. And please review this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mJGUJO5BjnA

098-20006


so you know how to use it properly. Remember to start out with LOTS of altitude with the glider nice and trim - I just can't emphasize that too much.

2. Ask Matt to list the gliders with which the new and improved Lockout Mountain Flight Park release can be legally flown given that it requires the protection of a 130 pound weak link (226 pounds towline tension).

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TTTFlymail/message/11545
Cart stuck incidents

Keith Skiles - 2011/06/02 19:50:13 UTC

I witnessed the one at Lookout. It was pretty ugly. Low angle of attack, too much speed and flew off the cart like a rocket until the weak link broke, she stalled and it turned back towards the ground.

Anyway, can't wait to hear your pro tips...

Yeah, they got LOTS of PROS over there. And it's pretty easy to spot the pros - they're the ones who know how to safely tow...

0:26 - 1:36 - 1:50 - 2:01 - 2:28 - 4:03 - 4:08 - 4:49
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-i4owd0akd0


..."two point" - one attachment point on each shoulder. And they're all really cool dudes so they're pretty easy to spot that way too.

...on aerotowing and will heed your calls for carefullness and such!

Regards,
Tim

I'll help you over here Tim. But damn near anywhere else you go you're gonna be getting fed a lot of dangerous crap.

P.S. Rather ironic spelling of "carefulness".

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=28452
advice please!!

Wayne Ripley - 2013/02/25 16:01:09 UTC
Cromwell, Connecticut

Not a bad price, the release alone is around 150.00.

It's a total death trap but you just can't pass up a deal like that.

As far has "how to" I would just pick out a well know aero tow park,take as many rides as you need with an instructor and use a Falcon for your first solo. Always tow with wheels if you need a fin use it.

- Before you decide how much advice you wanna take from this guy ask yourself how well that paragraph would fare in a third grade English class.

- ANY well know aerotow park WILL fuck you over - PERIOD.

- But you might wanna check out Morningside - seeing as how the new management boosted their weak links up to something approaching safe BEFORE somebody got killed again.

- And, yes...
- Use the fuckin' Falcon.
- Always fly with wheels until you've perfected your standup landings.
- Use the fuckin' fin - just don't expect it to do you any good if you "need" it.

Wanna say anything about releases and weak links - the two items most likely to be central issues in aerotowing fatalities?

Tim May - 2013/02/25 16:46:31 UTC

thanks!

I am going to Sonora...

Good choice!

...and they will have a falcon (with wheels I hope).

Yep.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VYe3YmdIQTM
tow.MPG
larswet - 2012/02/26
17-0617

31-0923


Right on both counts! AND a really safe standard aerotow weak link - the focal point of a safe towing system. (Tell Mark I said hi - and to go fuck himself.)

I will have 1 day of tandems (minimum 5) then I will start doing solo tows until I am ready for certification..

Like Bryan Bowker was shortly before his arm was broken in four pieces...

http://www.kitestrings.org/topic42.html

...and his hang gliding career was over?

...they said 2-3 days would be enough (I do have tandem airtime and some coastal soaring, together with lots of mountain launches and landings at morningside and also vermont).

WAY MORE than enough! I really like Sonora Wings 'cause they don't bog you down with any of that tedious "theory" crap. (And be sure to ask Mark about the practical differences are between the 130 pound fishing line he's using and the 200 stuff Morningside prefers.

I will pick out my equipment when I get back, then I will know a little more about it... !!

Ya think? My experience is that people INVARIABLY come back from training about fifteen times more clueless than they were before they started out.

So stoked to get lost of flying time in, my last flights were in november... boston winters, eh!

Gotta admire your enthusiasm! That's pretty much all you need in hang gliding.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=28452
advice please!!

Matt Christensen - 2013/02/25 16:56:25 UTC
Vienna, Virginia

For what it's worth, I personally do not like the LMFP releases that use the loop. I prefer the break lever that mounts on the downtube. I have both and my opinion is based on my experience using both.

Oh good. Critical towing equipment selection based on opinion and experience. Such a drag doing it based upon engineering/performance standards.

So maybe you could describe to us the experiences with the Lockout releases which brought you to the conclusion that they sucked so bigtime that any advantage you would have by having the actuator in hand with both hands on the basetube just wasn't worth it.

---
"Better to have a shorter life that is full of what you enjoy doing, than a long life spent in a miserable way." - Alan Watts

And, of course, in hang glider aerotowing those are pretty much your only two options. So pick one. (If it helps any... Zack Marzec opted for the former while I went with the latter - and I'm the one still around to express an opinion on the issue.)