1988/07/03 - George DePerrio - 62 - Advanced - 10 years experience - Vision - Sterling, Massachusetts
- Mont Saint Pierre, Quebec - Failure to hook in. - Fatal
Launched unhooked, fell over 100 feet to steep shale slope. Many distractions and extenuating circumstances. Pilot who launched just before got blown back but was unhurt. Conditions were a little stronger than he was used to (his comment). An impressive tall site which he had not flown before. Backed off from launch to wait for better conditions, unhooked and forgot to hook up when he stepped back to launch. No tradition at this site of doing hang check.
This fatality did not occur in the U.S. and will not be part of the U.S. total. But he was a U.S. pilot flying in a foreign country.
Doug Hildreth - 1988/11
DISCUSSION: Failure to hook in. There were seven of them last year. One was a fatality.
There have been four reported this year. Eric Oppie's fatality is recorded above. George DePerrio's fatality would have made two, but for the fact that it occurred in Canada.
This is an extremely frustrating type of incident for me. It has been written about in virtually every accident review article. Numerous other individuals have written articles approaching the problem from different viewpoints. It is not a matter of someone coming up with a new idea or approach to the problem, it is a matter of all of us on the hill--with every launch, whether our own or our flying buddy's--making sure this does not happen.
To repeat most of the things we have said in the past:
1) Consider attaching your harness to the glider during setup and climbing into the harness, never detaching it from the glider.
2) Do your hook-in in exactly the same sequence every time. If you do your hook-in before moving up to launch, always do it that way. If you carry your glider to launch, always do it that way. If you carry your glider to launch, then hook in, always do it that way.
3) After you are hooked in, step through the control bar, look back over your shoulder, and make sure everything is straight and attached.
5) When standing on launch, lift the glider and feel the straps come tight. If you launch with loose straps then let the glider back down, but at some point prior to the run, lift the glider at least once.
6) Before beginning your run, and before yelling "clear," yell "hooked in!"
7) On every launch by every pilot, look specifically to see that he is hooked in (visually preflight the rest of his glider as well), and say out loud, "You're hooked in."
8) Lastly, and most importantly, if you unhook for any reason, you must repeat the entire process.
The most consistent factor involved in a failure to hook in is the presence of something different. This can be a new site, or a new glider. It can be a new harness. More commonly it is concern about, and the pilot's attention on, something other than launching. Conditions may be different. He may be worried about the launch, the wind, what happened to the pilot in front of him, or competition, juggling for position, what he is going to do after he is in the air, or fiddling with the radio or camera equipment.
The other well-known factor is a flight being done for show. If you are demonstrating to someone--family or friends, news media, any sort of special observer--the chances of failing to hook in are significantly increased.
Before stepping to launch you must blot everything else out of your mind. You must run through your mental preflight checklist, at the beginning of which, and at the end of which must be "hooked in!" as you stand poised on launch. For the next five seconds you can only think of five things:
1) Hooked in!
2) Wings level!
3) "Clear!"
4) Nose down!
5) Run hard!
I am convinced that the only thing which will make any difference in the incidence of failure to hook in is a national, local and personal conviction. Every club, every group of flyers, every "buddy," and every individual pilot must make certain that he and every other pilot launching is hooked in. There is just no question about it guys, we must become fanatical about this!
Richard Robillard - 1988/11
REMEMBERING GEORGE DePERRIO
Recently, my father-in-law George DePerrio died in a tragic hang gliding accident at Mont St. Pierre in the province of Quebec, Canada. George was 62, had an advanced rating, and had been flying over ten years. Despite all his experience and skill, he simply forgot to hook in again after completing his hang check and then being distracted.
George loved his sport with a passion and was widely known in hang gliding circles as one of the nicest and friendliest guys around. It was not uncommon for him to spend many hours helping others with their launches, frequently at the expense of his own flights. In addition, George had donated much of his time clearing woods and building ramps in order to increase the number of new launch sites for the enjoyment of others. He especially enjoyed spending time assisting newcomers to the sport.
"Smilin" George, as he was often called by his friends, took great pride in his ability to "keep up" with his much younger fellow pilots. He was one of the first in this area to be dropped with his glider from a balloon. His greatest thrill occurred last year when he launched off Mont Blanc, the highest peak in Europe. We will all miss hearing of George's hang gliding exploits, but we will certainly never forget the wonderful memories we have of him.
The family of George DiPerrio would like to thank all those fellow pilots who made hang gliding so enjoyable for him. Special thanks to Jim Lajoie, Bud Brown, Collette Carson, Phil Vangel, Nick Caci, Mary Kessiak, Ron White, the Skyriders of New England, and his friends at Morningside Recreation Area. He truly loved all of you.
Anyone wishing to make a donation in his memory may do so by sending it to: George DiPerrio Memorial Scholarship, c/o David Konrad, Treasurer, Chocksett Club, P.O. Box 453, Sterling, MA 01564.
Richard Robillard
52 S. Main St.
Baldwinville, MA 01436
As a new HG pilot myself (some day I'll post an intro thread... Hello everyone!) and also a private pilot, this makes me kinda crazy myself. I have 75 flights on scooter tow, and have a fairly solid mental checklist I go through each flight. I've been making some notes and plan to ultimately have my own personalized written lists, but I haven't gotten there yet.
Learn the difference between preflight and launch sequence.
David W. Johnson - 2013/12/04 13:53:59 UTC
Huntsville, Alabama
I'm still wondering how he could hang in the harness and it not be obvious that he wasn't in it properly.
Try this then... Hang in your harness with and without the leg loops and tell us about the differences you feel.
My checks follow a rule I learned in Air Assault School... look where you touch and touch where you look. I don't just look to see if something is there. I put my hand on it as well. It forces you to really check things.
Yeah? Tell us about all of the items you've caught - on your glider and/or those of others - over the years because of the rule you learned in Air Assault School.
I know you don't do hook-in checks because you were "trained" at Lockout and you've never supported them in any of the discussions.
NMERider - 2013/12/04 17:32:45 UTC
I'm still wondering how he could hang in the harness and it not be obvious that he wasn't in it properly...
Unfortunately with many cocoon harnesses it may not be obvious that the legs are not inserted through the loops. I have a lot of hours in cocoons and insuring that your legs are in the loops is a matter of following one or more safe procedures previously discussed on this forum numerous times over the years.
Name some harnesses in which it's obvious that leg loops have been missed.
My checks follow a rule I learned in Air Assault School...
DING, DING DING, we have a winner!
No we don't.
This is one of the key procedures to insuring correct connection between pilot and harness.
Name some people who've discovered their carabiners weren't properly secured because they touched them.
Use your hands to physically verify leg-loop insertion by pulling on each loop.
Sure. That'll work. When do you do it?
Another safe procedure...
You haven't mentioned any procedures that are really good at preventing you from falling from your glider yet.
...is to raise the glider overhead until the hang strap pulls tight and this means the leg loops are providing resistance against the hang loop.
Doesn't that also mean that your carabiner is connected to your hang strap? Isn't that almost always the more critical issue? The asshole who inspired this thread missed both leg loops got the situation under full control probably within the space of under five seconds and had a normal flight. How do you think things would've gone if he'd launched unhooked?
Isn't this a lot better, easier, quicker, better check than the bullshit you mentioned first? It checks both leg loops and your carabiner at the same time while you're poised at launch position, you can keep both hands on the downtubes or basetube, and you can do it within a couple of seconds of - or even, in fact, DURING - launch.
So when's the best time to do this, check, Jonathan? Doesn't USHGA have a regulation which states:
With each flight, demonstrates a method of establishing that the pilot is hooked in just prior to launch.
Why do you think it specifies just prior to launch? What's your interpretation of just prior? Five, ten, fifteen minutes?
Wouldn't it be a good idea to do this within a couple of seconds of commitment to launch so there's ZERO possibility of a distraction, disruption, memory, false memory issue?
Wouldn't it be a good idea to require EVERYONE to do this EVERY launch and require EVERY Kagel user to ensure that it happens?
You said this is a "safe procedure". So how come there's no mention whatsoever of anything remotely like it in that USHGA preflight safety video...
If it's a safe procedure, as you say, how come Joe Greblo isn't teaching it? His students are launching unhooked left and right. Do you think he's just doing the same thing over and over year after year and expecting better results or just doesn't give a flying fuck?
If it's a safe procedure how come we don't see you doing it in the USHGA / Paul Voight video - or any video you've ever posted?
Another procedure is to ALWAYS enter a cocoon harness by inserting each leg through a leg loop BEFORE inserting your torso through the back straps and shoulder webbing. This works with or without the Aussie method.
I didn't think ANYTHING worked without the Ausie Method. I thought you'd be attacked and beaten to a bloody pulp if you violated the Aussie Method for any reason.
Hang checks are vital to insure that none of the lines are tangled or caught between a leg and a leg loop...
Really, Jonathan?
- So why is it vital that none of the lines are tangled or caught between a leg and a leg loop? Name someone who was scratched because of a line tangled or caught between a leg and a leg loop.
- So how come neither Rob Kells nor any of his test flyer crew do hang checks?
- Why is it impossible to identify a problem with a line tangled or caught between a leg and a leg loop?
...but do very little to verify leg-loop insertion.
They don't do shit - just like the goddam Aussie Method doesn't do shit.
Unless the pilot asked the hang check assistant to verify that his legs were inserted it's the pilot's sole error.
Yes. But why would someone:
- ask the assistant to check and not check himself?
- not run the lift and tug check you just described as a safe procedure?
- give a rat's ass what happened to any asshole who can't be bothered to do a lift and tug check?
Please note that "verify" means grab each leg loop and pull. Visual verification can give a false reading.
That's OK, Jonathan. I can get a one hundred percent positive verification every time doing the lift and tug.
I hope the pilot and wire assistant have buried the hatchet.
I don't. There are way too many cozy relationships as things are for this sport to be healthy. And while the guy on the glider is obviously the bigger asshole the hang checker is obviously no great asset to the gene pool either.
Let the crotch-grabbing jokes commence!
Yeah Jonathan, let's make them while we can.
Aeschna - 2013/12/05 03:51:28 UTC
Stratham, New Hampshire
epic1969 - 2013/11/30 04:08:38 UTC
I often wonder why hang glider pilots do not use a checklist? It seems a small laminated checklist attached with a lanyard to your harness would guarantee your clipped in.
A very similar incident to the one described at the top of the thread was recently posted to YouTube by Greg Porter. At the end of the vid he shows a checklist that he now hangs from his nose cone right in front of his face so it can't be ignored.
Until just before he moves up onto the ramp. Then it's neatly stowed inside the nose cone and out of the airflow.
Note his comment at 03:01:
Not showing my wireman, a good friend and excellent pilot - this was 100% my issue.
1. So we, as wiremen, good friends, and excellent pilots have zero percent responsibility to ensure that safe practices are being followed and USHGA regulations are being complied with - "self regulation" means every individual regulates himself however the fuck he feels like and how anybody else operates is none of anybody's goddam business.
2. Note his comment at 02:43:
A lot of pilots will pick up the glider until they feel the tension on their leg loops to be sure that those leg loops are attached.
So why the hell wasn't this asshole doing this before he screwed this pooch and why the hell wasn't his asshole good friend and "excellent" "pilot" wireman ensuring that he did this?
Regardless of whether I've had a hang check from another pilot, I ALWAYS perform a self-check before launching by lifting the control frame to make sure that I feel a tug all the way to my leg loops.
1. How long before launching?
2. Aren't you gonna credit the excellent instructor who taught you and all his other students to do this?
3. How come idiot fucking Greg Porter didn't start doing this after he launched without his leg loops?
4. Why doesn't EVERYBODY do this JUST PRIOR TO EVERY FLIGHT?
5. How come:
- none of the glider manufacturers include this procedure in their owners' manuals?
- the last mention of it in the magazine was eight years ago this month?
currently on General discussion Page 3 with 2929 hits for a review and found those motherfuckers deleted all my posts. The only evidence that I ever existed is replies from Tom and a couple of quotes with no sources.
Seeing as how that fine organization of both Ladies and Gentlemen doesn't want anybody to see what I'd written and the primary function of Kite Strings is to publish material that mainstream hang gliding doesn't want anyone to see...
"A court document alleges the pilot involved in the fatal hang gliding accident near Agassiz, B.C. Saturday tried to destroy evidence by swallowing a memory card."
McLearn also watched Orders set up his Glider and says he missed a crucial safety check.
"I was there pretty much for the entire time that they showed up until the time they launched and I did not see a hang check performed," she said.
A hang check is executed by having a pilot and passenger hang from a stationary glider to make sure they are properly attached.
This should be a good lesson for anyone that sees that a hang glider has missed his/her hang check, you shouldn't just stand there and say to yourself that they missed there hang check then let them fly off, like this paraglider pilot did. I say if you see it happen let someone know quickly then they can check it for them or you personally go up to the hang glider in question and help him/her do a hang check.
It really amazes me that this women has no problem telling authorities that she saw him never do a hang check and let him launch!
DonS - 2012/05/03 19:48:36 UTC
North Denver
Benzie is right when he said this is horrible. This is not the first time this has happened. Back in the day we would have twenty hang gliders on launch at Lookout all rushing to get setup and off for the morning cook. On one of these days a friend got setup and on launch first well before the rest of us. I stopped setting up when I saw this and started to walk over to launch. Before I got two steps he was already running off launch. Something wasn't right. He was hanging too low. O my god, he is hanging by his hands alone. My stomach knotted up as I realized what I was about to witness.
Pilot in command is something all pilots learn about on day one. The buck stops here. We learn that we alone are responsible for our flight and all that goes into it. We take pride in checking the weather, pre flight of the wing, and last but most definitely not least making absolutely da?@ sure you are hooked in. That said, we also looked after each other because nobody's perfect all the time. As a courtesy not a rule we would offer a hang check to a fellow pilot. This served two purposes. The pilot could verify that he is hanging at the correct height with all lines straight and double check that he is hooked in. The first hook in check the pilot already did himself. When launching without assistance, which was most of the time, you could not perform a hang check. You needed your own routine to make sure you were definitely hooked in before you launched. Some pilots took to hooking their harnesses in first and then climbed into them. Most of us made it part of a short but crucial pre launch list/ritual.
We were young and because of pride there was the chance that a pilot might even take offense at the offer of a hang check. I would always visually check everyone else I could. If I saw anything that looked the slightest out of place I would convince them to do a hang check or at least double check things.
Tandem flying is a different animal. The passenger may not be a pilot and definitely is not in command. Their life is in the pilot's hands. There is specific training and certification for tandem pilots.
Oh yea, the pilot left hanging by his hands realized he was not hooked in and too high to drop so he climbed into the control bar. With his feet on the control bar he made several turns to maneuver to the old LZ north of 58 and even flared for a perfect landing. Unfortunately this was the last flight I ever saw this guy take. He was a great guy and was well on his way to becoming a great pilot. I know it wasn't nerves or fear that stopped him as the end of the story shows he was one cool cat. I never got to ask him but I assumed he must have questioned himself as a responsible pilot. It was great he was unharmed but a shame we lost him as a pilot.
Dave Stitz - 2012/05/15 18:17:51 UTC
It's unfortunate that this is my first post, but I've been a lurker for sometime. Not really the thread to introduce myself and talk about my history with the sport, but I wanted to chime in and say that my first flight ever was with the pilot in this article. Two years ago I spent 6 weeks in Vancouver and on Canadian Thanksgiving I called up Jon and he took me up that day at the same site, on the same glider. When I stumbled upon the original article a couple weeks ago I had chills going down my spine.
We launched and were up for 45 minutes, flew with eagles, he let me control and gave me a lesson, and then he zoomed the glider around a bit and took us in for a smooth landing. We could have stayed up longer and I'm sure he would have loved to but I was getting nauseous . It was this flight that motivated me to go to Lookout Mountain, GA this past August and earn my Hang 2.
We did a hang check that afternoon and from what I learned at LM he seemed to follow standard protocol.
When we were driving to launch I learned of his long history with the sport and the CC competitions he had taken part in. its extremely unfortunate that this happened. He has recently stated that he will not be back in the sky again and I cannot fathom the level of remorse he feels.
My condolences go to the family of the deceased.
BJ Herring - 2012/05/16 20:14:54 UTC
Thanks for sharing that and welcome to the forum. Going to work on my Tandem certifications this weekend with Cowboy Up hg in Wyoming and this scenario has been hard to process.
Tad Eareckson - 2012/05/22 04:09:56 UTC
Dave Stitz - 2012/05/15 18:17:51 UTC
When I stumbled upon the original article a couple weeks ago I had chills going down my spine.
Time machine. 2010/10/11, Woodside, ten seconds before launch. Are you gonna do anything different from what you did on the first take?
I use the Aussie method, a self hang check, then a second party hang check, a hook-in check, and Dave Hopkin's rule of three. Three mistakes between when the glider comes off the rack to launch, then it's time to put the glider away, since I am not focused on what I am doing.
OK- how many times does he need confirm that he is hooked in? And when would be the best time to make that confirmation?
Brian McMahon - 2011/10/24 21:04:17 UTC
Once, just prior to launch.
Christian Williams - 2011/10/25 03:59:58 UTC
I agree with that statement.
What's more, I believe that all hooked-in checks prior to the last one before takeoff are a waste of time, not to say dangerous, because they build a sense of security which should not be built more than one instant before commitment to flight.
Tom Galvin - 2012/08/30 00:33:03 UTC
I see you quoted my post selectively.
We are human, and can not do "always". I use the Aussie method, a self hang check, then a second party hang check, a hook-in check, and Dave Hopkin's rule of three. 3 mistakes between when the glider comes off the rack to launch, then it's time to put the glider away, since I am not focused on what I am doing.
Even with all that, I know that one day, I could still launch unhooked. I am human. I can only mitigate the risks, not eliminate them.
In your own words, what are you trying to say.
Tad Eareckson - 2012/08/30 02:49:04 UTC
I'm trying to say a refined version of what the people who understand and know how to deal with this issue have been saying since the Seventies and what USHGA has had in its regulations (undermined at every opportunity, though they have been, by the Paul and Ryan Voights, Matt Tabers, Steve Wendts, Jim Rooneys, and various other serial killers of this world) for every launch for every rating since 1981/05 - a wee bit over a year after I got into this stupid sport.
THE KEY to not doing the sort of thing that Bill Priday, Kunio Yoshimura, and Jon Orders have done is to within no more than five seconds of launch (preferably a lot less) be scared SHITLESS that you're about to make the same mistake - and do SOMETHING to make sure that your carabiner isn't dangling behind your knees for EVERY FOOT LAUNCH of your entire hang gliding career.
You said in my own words but lemme insert one of the things Rob Kells - with respect to the Wills Wing crew - said in response to the 2005/10/01 Bill Priday fatality:
Rob Kells - 2005/12
Each of us agrees that it is not a particular method, but rather the fear of launching unhooked that makes us diligent to be sure we are hooked in every time before starting the launch run.
FEAR is your best buddy. Nobody needed to convince me of anything in 1980 'cause I knew that was EXACTLY the kind of mistake a chronic airhead such as myself was virtually GUARANTEED to make.
Combine that fear with the kind of absolute minimum check that was illustrated in the video michael170 posted - which is what Rob Kells used:
Rob Kells - 2005/12
Always lift the glider vertically and feel the tug on the leg straps when the harness mains go tight, just before you start your launch run. I always use this test.
which is what Yours Truly used for about a quarter century with nothing even CLOSE to a failure - and you WILL BE bulletproof.
All that other crap you're doing and worrying about prior to those critical last couple of seconds is boosting your confidence that you're gonna be OK come showtime and - EXACTLY as Christian is saying - it's BOOSTING your chances of launching unhooked, not diminishing them.
Helen McKerral - 2010/09/07 00:16:04 UTC
South Australia
Basically, the idea is that no matter whether you use the Aussie method or not (another emotive topic), or how you do your hang check (step through or hang, look, feel, whatever) the VERY LAST THING you do immediately before every launch is to lift the glider up off your shoulders so the hangstrap goes tight and you FEEL the tug of your legloops around your groin/thighs.
More important, I think, is a change in mindset: that you constantly assume that you are NOT hooked in. That is the default mindset and only after you've done the lift and tug - immediately before every launch - do you decide you're hooked in. Also, because the default assumption is negative rather than positive, you are much less likely to start any run unhooked.
When and only when the default assumption becomes that you, the people for whom you are crewing, and the people you're watching take those last couple of steps to launch position and in park waiting for cycles are NOT HOOKED IN will this problem DISAPPEAR.
I also spend a lot of time going over the setup of the glider, practicing picking it up balanced and doing ground runs. On the first day, my students get very little time in the air. My priority is teaching skills in a safe environment, rather than time aloft.
But I did have an incident where I failed to hook in. At High Rock Eddie Miller saved my sorry butt. Sure woke me up. Too bad Bill did not have a scare like that. I now have a nice DSL line through the tangle of Alzheimer's plaque. That was at least ten years ago and there is still not a blade of grass on that neuron path. So that is not how I am going to die.
What we really have to do is to vaccinate pilots, like I have been, but without the scare. How do you do that? How do you get them to internalize a procedure so that they do it no matter what distractions are present? I don't know. But I have come to feel that the communal effort to assure that pilots are hooked can be destructive of this purpose. I never intended to advocate that wire crews should not be vigilant; just that they avoid hijacking the process.
I don't let my students get anywhere NEAR the goddam glider until I'm well underway with MY priority - which is scaring the crap out of them on the unhooked launch issue.
- I tell them that assuming that they're hooked into a glider five seconds before launch can be and has often been just as deadly as pointing guns to their heads and and pulling the trigger under the assumption that it's unloaded 'cause they checked it a couple of minutes ago.
I tell them:
- if they're gonna do the gun trick to point it at the ground and pull the trigger within two to five seconds of dry firing at their heads NO MATTER WHAT they remember or think they remember having done to make sure it was unloaded a minute or two ago.
- if they're gonna do the glider trick to lift it up until they feel it stop and their leg loops go tight within two to five seconds of launch NO MATTER WHAT they remember or think they remember having done to make sure they were connected a minute or two ago.
- while in order to kill themselves in hang gliding and other flavors of aviation you've usually gotta line up about three mistakes simultaneously, on this issue you have real good chances of success just making one - and that that one is REAL EASY to make.
- most of the people who've made it have had scores, hundreds, thousands of times more experience than they will when the day is done.
- ALL the people who've made it were one hundred percent positive that they were hooked in five seconds prior to launch and that, obviously, the best strategy for not making it is to be one hundred percent positive that they're NOT hooked in five seconds prior to launch - REGARDLESS of whether or not they are.
- there's a USHGA *REGULATION* covering EVERY launch for EVERY rating of their careers which states:
With each flight, demonstrates a method of establishing that the pilot is hooked in just prior to launch.
and that "just prior to launch" doesn't mean fifteen, ten, five, two, one minute or thirty, twenty, fifteen, ten seconds before launch. It means JUST PRIOR.
- about the devastation that the unhooked launch incidents with unhappy endings cause to families and friends, rattle off a few names and accounts, and show them the videos.
- this is a self regulated sport and they, as rated pilots, have a responsibility to ensure that their fellow flyers are adhering to appropriate standard operating procedures - and that the hook-in check is the most critical of all standard operating procedures in the sport.
- observing people launching without hook-in checks without saying anything is the ethical equivalent of seeing a dangling carabiner on a launch ramp and not saying anything.
Then I take them out to the hill.
In the landing area before we go up I have them suit up and hook in.
I have them do hang checks to check their bar clearances and tell them to NEVER do hang checks unless they NEED to check their clearances - and that nobody's ever been scratched 'cause his bar clearance was off a foot one way or the other.
Then I have them do five dummy launches apiece into the wind - each preceded by a lift and tug within two seconds of the foot moving to start working on the muscle memory thing.
Then we go up the hill for the live fire exercises.
About halfway through the training flights I'll pull a student aside to "discuss his speed control" while everybody takes a short break.
- I'll instead tell him that I'm gonna do a demo hook-in check and flight - and that I'll have everybody focused on me doing a lift and tug then get them focused on the ribbon halfway down the hill for ten seconds.
- During that ten second interval he's gonna unhook me.
With everyone watching I then have him hold my keel while I do a hang check, stand up, level and trim the glider, do a lift and tug, and get everybody watching the ribbon.
He unhooks me, I say "Clear!", start running, let the glider float up till the bar's at my chest, then hit the brakes.
I then make the point that you can never make a mistake in this sport by assuming the worst about your hook-in status, memory, skills, equipment, current situation, atmospheric conditions, landing surface, instructor, wire crew, tow driver, equipment manufacturer, flight park operator, accident reporter, magazine editor, textbook author, friends, online community, club, national organization, or government regulatory agency.
So Tom...
- Whose students do you think have lower probabilities of launching unhooked - yours or mine?
- Whose students do you think have higher probabilities of preventing someone else from launching unhooked - yours or mine?
Tom Galvin - 2012/10/22 03:59:15 UTC
Tad Eareckson - 2012/10/21 18:40:57 UTC
So Tom...
- Whose students do you think have lower probabilities of launching unhooked - yours or mine?
- Whose students do you think have higher probabilities of preventing someone else from launching unhooked - yours or mine?
Well if you don't teach, and I do, then that is a pretty simple equation.
Tad Eareckson - 2012/10/22 16:41:42 UTC
You are ABSOLUTELY, ONE HUNDRED PERCENT *RIGHT* (ignoring the fact that you didn't answer either of my questions (similar to the manner in which nobody else in this useless cud chewing dump has responded to anything I've said within the span of the past five months)).
If I don't teach hang gliding at all there is a zero percent chance of me teaching something wrong or incompletely which will get somebody injured, crippled, or killed.
And I would build on that to say that if somebody teaches hang gliding 99.99 percent right and rates ten thousand pilots one of whom is seriously injured or killed because of the intructor's 0.01 percent incompetence and/or negligence that the instructor's net benefit to the sport - and society - was negative and he should've spent his career cultivating medicinal marijuana or doing something else relatively harmless.
Give Jon Orders a call sometime and see if he finds fault with my math. I one hundred percent guarantee you that he wishes with every ounce of his being that he'd never heard of a goddam hang glider before and had instead developed an early and all consuming passion for beach volleyball.
And maybe get a second opinion from a member of Lenami's family.
I've found your posts on both hook-in checks and releases very interesting and well thought out.
Best of luck dealing with the Oz Report forum cult and its leader.
I get what Tad is saying, but it took some translation:
HANG CHECK is part of the preflight, to verify that all the harness lines etc. are straight.
HOOK-IN CHECK is to verify connection to the glider five seconds before takeoff.
They are separate actions, neither interchangeable nor meant to replace one another. They are not two ways to do the same thing.
Zack C - 2010/10/15 13:25:50 UTC
Houston
Speaking of which, while I can fault Tad's approach, I can't fault his logic, nor have I seen anyone here try to refute it.
Dave Williams - 2010/11/08 13:17:55 UTC
Texas
I was almost speechless that within a short space of time yet another failure to clip in INCIDENT (no accident) and we're trying to ban Tad from our daily email delight.
One of the three things Tad is very forthright on is the hang check/clip in. I was very concerned that the most recent failure to clip in was glossed over as if it was totally unimportant. Whilst anyone in this group displays this complacent attitude we need at least one Tad with regular inputs, most of which are safety oriented. So my input is that we absolutely need Tad, at least until we can learn to do the basics.
Jason Rogers - 2008/10/14 20:52:01 UTC
Port Macquarie, New South Wales
Thanks for this discussion. I spent most of my flying time at a rounded hill takeoff, where this really isn't that much of an issue. I don't think I was placing the right sort of importance on being hooked in... So now that I'm flying less "forgiving" sites, you may well have saved my life.
I have launched unhooked and experienced the horror of hanging by my fingers over jagged rocks ... and the surreal result - i.e. not being significantly injured.
I am a firm believer in 'lift and tug' and the mindset of assuming I am not hooked in. It is motivated by the recurring memory of my own experience ... and the tragic deaths and life-altering injuries of good friends.
Steve Davy - 2011/07/18 11:04:14 UTC
Hello folks.
I'm new here, been reading post for hours, it's late and my eyes hurt now. Need to sleep.
Zack, thank you for starting this. Smart move!
Tad, I like you (no bullshit) - we need more like you if we are going to survive.
Brian Vant-Hull - 2007/07/21 13:00:33 UTC
Manhattan
I'll be lazy and ask if any of your references give a physical reason for the 0.8 to 2 g range they quote as safe. If not, constructing a reasonable physical argument could be a major contribution. You clearly have the physics down well enough (as good as anyone else in the world) to do so.
Bob, I had already looked over the first two links you posted about the Capitol Hang Gliding Club and knew that Tad was an active member in the early '90's and I had also looked over his Flickr pictures of releases. It was the third link that turned out to be the really good one. I read the whole thread from top to bottom, about a three hour chore for me and keeping score as it bounced from person to person was hard for a while. The one thing I found I could seriously relate to was Tad Eareckson. He is my newest Hero now.
Donnell Hewett - 2008/11/05 21:22:29 UTC
Kingsville, Texas
Let me begin by saying that I personally appreciate Tad Eareckson's efforts to improve the SOP of aerotowing as well as his suggestion to update the Skyting Criteria. It is through efforts like his that progress is made toward safer towing.
I thank him for keeping this issue before the hang gliding community.
Gregg Ludwig - 2009/02/12 00:05:51 UTC
Towing Committee Chair
The Woodlands, Texas
Would you be interested in a position on the USHPA Tow Committee? You can participate via e-mail if you can't make it to a BOD meeting. ..or just help me with a single project...
I need to rewrite the aerotow SOP...to include ATP and Sport pilot stuff....weaklinks...or just send me a proposal on weaklink sop ideas...
John Glime - 2009/04/13 18:09:32 UTC
Salt Lake City
There is one person who has put more thought and time into releases than anyone. That person is Tad. He explains the pros and cons to every release out there. I gave you the link to more release information than the average person could ever digest, and I didn't get a thank you. Just you bitching that we aren't being constructive. What more could you want? He has created something that is a solution, but no one is using it... apparently you aren't interested either. So what gives??? What do you want us to tell you? Your concerns echo Tad's concerns, so why not use his system? Every other system out there has known flaws.
ian9toes - 2009/06/14 15:18:37 UTC
Gold Coast, Queensland
I strongly disagree with banning the one guy who has the most knowledge about safety issues involving what I believe is the most dangerous part of our sport. I hear someone dies every year from towing. I hope SG bites his tongue in the interest of public safety.
Tad, used to post about as nice as anyone, and nicer than some. Remember?
Blowback... You put in a thousand plus hour$, tooling, te$ting and documenting safety issues for the masses and have it ignored and suppressed by people, for whatever reason, and you would get testy too.
You're fairly snarky as it is, and you haven't done the work...
And you may be correct about the footnote... but today's footnotes are now hyperlinks...
There is a good chance that from now on, for every incident and fatality caused by insufficient weaklinks or sub-standard release mechanisms, a hyperlink trail will lead back to Tadtriedtowarnyou.com ... where all the evidence can be found.
A further link could then go to a list of all the people and the role they played in the suppression of those safety issues...
Who would like to be on that list?
How many are already on it?
I leave flatlands for the alps..
I'd like to thank you sincerly Tad to help me to introduce 2 point AT in France in a safely manner and understand better lot of important stuffs about AT (release, wl, asymmetrical tension..). I try to relay your work here.
Thanks Zack too for having offered you a place to talk about, and for us to ask and read.
Regards Guys
Wow. The irony. The arrogance. And people call Tad arrogant...I can see why you have so much contempt for this guy, Tad.
I have yet to see anyone debunk Tad's 'lunacy'...
Jason Rogers - 2009/12/01 09:55:51 UTC
Hi Tad,
I read your summation on the oz report and you said it better in one line than I did in a whole page. Like getting hard on the brakes one foot before you hit. Wow. I can *see* that.
Actually concreted it in my mind better than all the numbers.
Like Tad said...it's tough to find a video of someone landing in a place that isn't wheel landable.
Zack C - 2011/05/01 00:50:38 UTC
Re: Think like an albatross.
Ryan, for example, wouldn't be a bad one to consult on an issue like this. (But even so, I can probably explain it better than he can.)
That's the kind of statement that makes people call you arrogant, but I'll be damned if it isn't true. I don't think I could have expected an explanation that good from /anyone/ on the org. Thanks for taking the time.
...I've done more work on identifying the people in this sport with functional brains and consolidating and building on their accomplishments, demolishing the crap that passes for theory and the corrupt incompetent morons who pass for gurus and perpetrate it in this idiot cult, writing standards and procedures based on solid theoretical foundations, developing and making available superior equipment technology, dealing - effectively - with the unhooked launch issue, and doing more top notch instruction than you could possibly even imagine in half a dozen lifetimes.
(And I've done this at a personal cost that you'd be hard pressed to imagine as well.)
So...
Would anyone now like to try to make a case that I don't teach? Good.
Now that the equation is a little more complex...
Is there any possibility of you answering my two questions? Or, failing that, pointing out the obvious flaws in my Day One teaching strategy?
This risk:
Even with all that, I know that one day, I could still launch unhooked. I am human. I can only mitigate the risks, not eliminate them.
CAN be ELIMINATED. And people - like Helen - who've engaged me in conversations and not ignored or dodged questions HAVE eliminated it for themselves.
The "mitigation" that you're doing for/to yourself - which is certainly no better than what you're doing for/to your students - isn't good enough.
I want to thank Mark Denzel for nominating me for the new Safety Director and for everyone voting me in tonight's meeting.
I have some ideas for making this year a safe year for flying and so I will be hitting up some of the more experienced pilots for some of their wisdom and knowledge.
When Bob Gillisse got hurt I suggested that our local institution of the hang check is more the problem than the solution. I still believe that. It subverts the pilot's responsibility to perform a hook-in check. I often do not see pilots doing a hook-in check. Why should they? They just did a hang check and they are surrounded by friends who will make sure this box is checked.
Mike Benzie - 2012/05/02 13:21:40 UTC
This should be a good lesson for anyone that sees that a hang glider has missed his/her hang check, you shouldn't just stand there and say to yourself that they missed there hang check then let them fly off, like this paraglider pilot did. I say if you see it happen let someone know quickly then they can check it for them or you personally go up to the hang glider in question and help him/her do a hang check.
Hey Mike,
What are your thoughts on advocating that people launch and insist on others launching in compliance with the USHGA regulation:
With each flight, demonstrates a method of establishing that the pilot is hooked in just prior to launch.
which virtually eliminates the possibility of an unhooked launch, rather than continuing to advocate the goddam idiot hang check to use as confirmation of hook-in status and an excuse to violate the USHGA regulation, a strategy which - as over the course of the past three plus decades history, logic, gravity, and the people with the triple digit IQs have been trying to teach the endless hordes of hopelessly slow learners in this joke of a sport - absolutely guarantees another fatal unhooked launch incident sometime down the road (generally at a rate of around once every two or three years)?
Tom Galvin - 2012/10/31 22:17:21 UTC
Tad Eareckson - 2012/10/22 16:41:42 UTC
You are ABSOLUTELY, ONE HUNDRED PERCENT *RIGHT* (ignoring the fact that you didn't answer either of my questions (similar to the manner in which nobody else in this useless cud chewing dump has responded to anything I've said within the span of the past five months)).
You are arguing straw men. I teach hook-in checks. I don't teach lift and tug, as it gives a false sense of security. If you include your internet postings as teaching, then from my perspective you are very ineffective, since you mostly alienate those you are seeking to inform. Since you seem to be incapable of rational, civil discourse, this will be my last reply to you. I suspect if you continue your abusive postings, you can add another forum to the list of those you have been banned from.
Tad Eareckson - 2012/11/01 14:06:24 UTC
You are arguing straw men.
Arguing?
I teach hook-in checks.
And Liberty University teaches biology.
I don't teach lift and tug...
Duh.
...as it gives a false sense of security.
That is THE single most dumbfoundingly stupid fabrication I have heard in my entire life on this subject. (Thank you, God. I knew if I could just get him talking I'd get something good - but this is a treasure beyond my wildest dreams. Right up there with Rooney's "Please note that the weaklink *saved* her ass. She still piled into the earth despite the weaklink helping her...")
If you include your internet postings as teaching...
It doesn't matter whether I include them or not. What's important is that the people reading them do.
...then from my perspective you are very ineffective...
From your perspective lift and tug gives a false sense of security - so I couldn't be much happier with your perspective on my effectiveness.
...since you mostly alienate those you are seeking to inform.
What makes you think you know which people I'm seeking to inform and which I prefer to alienate?
I LOVE alienating the kinds of Marc Fink caliber idiots, frauds, and cowards that Jack, Davis, and Peter foster and protect to bolster their mutual masturbation societies. It's an absolute joy to read about Mitch Shipley taking out a T2C keel after a "standard aerotow weak link" failure and Rooney dangling from his basetube en route to contact with the powerlines after launching once too often under the assumption that he was hooked in.
When assholes like these mangle and kill themselves in ways I've predicted the gene pool and my credibility benefit, the hit counters on my forum (Kite Strings) start rocketing up, and it makes it a lot easier to get through to my target audience - the one or two percent of people in this moronic sport with triple digit IQs who have the potential to benefit hang gliding, society, evolution, and the planet.
Since you seem to be incapable of rational, civil discourse...
And you teach engineering? Un freaking believable.
The proof that I'm a moron, is that I'm making another post to this list.
Anyway, the civility and functionality of this list seems to have degenerated, so I'll try to communicate with some of you about current tug-related issues in some other way for now. Please feel free to email me directly.
Best, Tracy
Hang Gliding - 2012/06
HIGHER EDUCATION - 2012/06
TIE A (BETTER) WEAK LINK
by Drs. Lisa Colletti and Tracy Tillman
TRACY: Unlike the FAA's relatively clear-cut legal rules, the practical aspects of weak link technology and application are not so clear-cut. For some people, talking about weak links is more like talking about religion, politics, or global warming--they can get very emotional about it and have difficulty discussing it logically, rationally, or with civility.
LISA: So let's try to talk about it rationally, logically, and practically here.
...some of my discussions with Dr. Tracy S. Tillman.
You are being much too complimentary IMHO. I got so nauseated reading it I had to take a breather. Do you mean to tell me they wrote an article that wasn't insipid and self-congratulatory to the extreme? I've found their entire series on aerotowing to come off rather poorly to say the least. A sad waste of such exalted and highly qualified medical professionals. How do I know this? Well they won't stop patting each other on the back about how great they both are.
Pardon me while I puke.
(Are you friends with him and Lisa?)
...this will be my last reply to you.
Of course it will. I had concluded a good while back that you had neither the brains nor balls to hold up for more than about fifteen seconds in a public debate anyway.
I suspect if you continue your abusive postings, you can add another forum to the list of those you have been banned from.
Lessee...
- Capitol Hang Glider Association
- Peter Birren Show
- Jack Show
- Paragliding Forum
- Davis Show
- Houston Hang Gliding & Paragliding Association
- Bob Kuczewski Show
I think that's all of them. This one and two more and and I'll be into double digits.
So from how many cults have YOU been banned for standing up for something and calling dickheads dickheads? (You really oughta check out some of my correspondence with Sam Kellner and the late Terry Mason sometime.)
Like I said...
...similar to the manner in which nobody else in this useless cud chewing dump has responded to anything I've said within the span of the past five months...
It's been six months and close to three days since Lenami got under a glider with a former hang checker who didn't do lift and tug 'cause it gave him a false sense of security, I've kept this thread alive for another 746 hits so far (with none of the covering fire I had hoped to get from Allen), and all RMHGPA is doing is talking about a first aid course so everybody will know just what to do when the impact zone a thousand feet below launch is finally located.
So you're free to declare victory and walk out on the conversation, still without having answered those two questions, and keep on doing what everyone - 'cept the couple dozen smart people - in hang gliding has been doing for decades and expecting different results. BUT...
I one hundred percent guarantee you that if somebody with your signature on his card runs off a ramp without his glider 'cause you taught him to give himself the kind of false security that you give yourself by doing a bunch of crap behind the ramp instead of following the goddam USHGA SOPs and verifying the connection within five seconds of EVERY launch then I'm gonna do everything I can to help his family's attorneys make:
- you;
- the asshole who signed you off on your instructor certification; and
- the corrupt sewer of a national organization that authorized him as an ICP Administrator
as accountable and miserable as possible - on the theory that that might incentivize one or two other instructors to start doing things right.
Jan Voegeli - 2012/11/01 21:16 UTC
Tom Galvin - 2012/10/31 22:17:21 UTC
I suspect if you continue your abusive postings, you can add another forum to the list of those you have been banned from.
Done.
Kelly Hewes - 2012/11/01 23:02 UTC
We are an organization of both Ladies and Gentlemen. Thank you Loopy.
2wingit - 2012/11/03 00:00 UTC
This goes out to old "Don Sebastian" I have never heard that old story as long as I have been involved at "Lookout" you and your brother were awsome HGs that I respected when I started but that is one hell of a story.
MR
Steve Davy - 2012/11/04 01:20 UTC
Tom Galvin - 2012/10/31 22:17:21 UTC
I teach hook-in checks. I don't teach lift and tug, as it gives a false sense of security.
Tom,
Pat Denevan teaches lift and tug. What do you know about the issue that he doesn't?
Tom Galvin - 2012/11/05 03:05 UTC
I step through and look at the biner before picking up the glider to ensure that my harness, chute and both straps are connected to it with a locked gate, except at the shore where I do not lock the gate. If conditions are not right, and I set the glider down, then I repeat it when I pick up again. Lift and tug can give a false positive if you are hooked in to something other than your hang strap, or in a situation like this...
Mike Jobin - 2012/11/05 05:40 UTC
Denver
I don't know how to respond to this tread in terms of Hang gliders, but for me as a tandem paraglider I check all the connections/straps/ carabiners 3 times before launching. This means (for a paraglider), 6 carabiners (reserve/pilot/passenger), 4 leg straps, 4 chest straps,2 helmet straps... 3 times! No matter what, this was my training... check everything 3 times. I don't understand how someone would become complacent with this responsibility!!!!
John W - 2012/11/05 16:29 UTC
We're coming due for another kill. I am TOTALLY cool with something very public at Lookout - Golden. Tom, if at all possible, but a flying buddy or anyone with his name on his or her card would suffice.
I use the Aussie method, a self hang check, then a second party hang check, a hook-in check, and Dave Hopkin's rule of three. Three mistakes between when the glider comes off the rack to launch, then it's time to put the glider away, since I am not focused on what I am doing.
We can abort on most slope launches. if it goes bad in the first couple steps We can put on the brakes and get away with a dropped nose or small ground loop.
Also if we are not hooked in we should be aware that the glider has flown too high and we can let go of it before we get into the air or going to fast . I teach this on the training hill. we should let the glider fly off our shoulder and be very aware that the strap is tight . If the glider keeps going up let it go.
Do you also use Dave's rule of aborting launches when the glider goes up without tensioning the suspension after a few steps into the run? The one he uses after carefully not doing a hook-in check before he starts his run because it gives a false sense of security?
Another safe procedure is to raise the glider overhead until the hang strap pulls tight and this means the leg loops are providing resistance against the hang loop.
NMERider endorses lift and tug as a safe procedure and, even worse, Aeschna's...
Aeschna - 2013/12/05 03:51:28 UTC
Regardless of whether I've had a hang check from another pilot, I ALWAYS perform a self-check before launching by lifting the control frame to make sure that I feel a tug all the way to my leg loops.
...actually USING it - ALWAYS. Seems to me like he's living on borrowed time going off with false sense of security on every foot launch he makes.
You were USHGA's 2009 Hang Gliding Instructor of the Year - the year after Kunio Yoshimura very surprisingly bought it after running off of Mingus without doing a hook-in check to give himself a false sense of security. Don't you have something of an obligation - a moral responsibility - to denounce these two guys for endorsing and engaging in this dangerous behavior? How come you're not saying anything?
And how come you're not getting on Dave's case? Dave's uses lift and tug every flight after he starts his launch run. When the glider goes up without tensioning the suspension after a few steps he aborts. And when it goes up and tensioning the suspension after a few steps he continues. So at that point...
How about an open forum discussion on how Greg Porter's pre-flight failure relates to each of us in SHGA (and it does relate). I offer these questions to start:
What can you change in your routine or habits to prevent a similar launch incident?
1. More hang checks
2. Avoid distractions
3. Checklists with lots of distractions written on them
If you are faced with landing fully-zipped--are there safer options what the video shows?
Nope. This is hang gliding dude so one must try to land on one's feet at ALL costs.
How about an open forum discussion on how Greg Porter's pre-flight failure...
It wasn't primarily a preflight failure. It was primarily a launch sequence failure. And until you Grebloville assholes can get that concept through your astronomically thick skulls you're totally wasting your time talking about it. So go ahead and get on with the usual idiot discussions about what to do after you launch without your leg loops.
...relates to each of us in SHGA (and it does relate).
Just SHGA, of course. Who gives a rat's ass about anyone else?
I offer these questions to start:
What can I change in my own routine or habits to prevent a similar launch incident from happening to me?
Nothing. You guys have got a couple of the greatest instructors on the planet in the LA area.
Another safe procedure is to raise the glider overhead until the hang strap pulls tight and this means the leg loops are providing resistance against the hang loop.
What you've already been taught to do is the best anyone can ever hope to do.
If I am faced with landing fully-zipped--do I have safer options than what the video shows?
See? Told ya you'd be much happier talking about what to do after launching without your leg loops. And if you wanna learn some good strategies for what to do after you launch without your glider I can point you to some real gems.
Cheers,
Jonathan
Fuck you, Jonathan.
Rob Burgis - 2013/12/23 03:04:27 UTC
Take some advice from a guy who has launched without leg loops on TWO occasions.
Listen to this guy, Jonathan. It's always the biggest chronic fuckups who have the best opinions and advice.
You do not need to land zipped up. You can unzip and stand on you the boot of your harness until the very last moment.
And make sure you stop it on your feet no matter what. I just can't emphasize that point too much.
This is what I did the first time. The second time I decided that I needed to secure myself somehow before I landed.
Did the thought of zipping your harness up come to mind? Just kidding.
I was unable to hook even one leg loop while flying but I did manage to unbuckle my belt and run it through a leg loop and reattach. This secured me to the harness and I had a normal landing.
"Normal", of course, meaning the technique that causes more serious injuries than everything else in hang gliding combined.
And DO keep us posted on what technique you'll use the next couple of times.
Malury Silberman - 2013/12/23 09:54:14 UTC
Alhambra
The one time that I failed to get in my leg loops...
Oh good. More advice from another fuckup.
...I landed the way Rob did. I stood on the boot with one leg, getting out at the last moment and hanging by my arm pits momentarily.
It was an acceptable landing but what if something else had gone wrong on this flight?
Like what? Not having your chinstrap buckled? Just be extra conscientious about doing Joe's Five Cs.
The real question is how can a pilot make sure this never happens?
There are tons of solutions to this problem. You can use any of them or any combinations of them. Just be ABSOLUTELY CERTAIN to totally ignore what Greg says at 02:43. If that were really a good idea everybody would be teaching and doing it already and Paul Voight would've mentioned it in USHGA's "Pre Flight Safety for Hang Gliding" video. But it's definitely not. All it does is give you a false sense of security. You could be hooked into something other than your hang strap or just have the carabiner partially engaged. Doing nothing within two seconds of launch guarantees that neither of those mistakes will ever happen.
I remember doing a hang check that day but my focus was on basetube clearance and hang strap / caribiner.
Good thing you checked that basetube clearance. A half a dozen people are killed each year because of the basetube clearance has changed since last flight and they neglect to check it. Clearance is one of the most critical of the Five Cs.
I use a Z5 harness and the very first thing I do is get in the loops and look at them. Still not foolproof.
No, but it's the best you can do. It's one of the two most important issues you can have so it should be one of the first two things you check. Then as you get closer and closer to launch you can give your full attention to some of the lesser Cs like chin strap, cell phone, camera, cumulous clouds. chocolate bars.
Thanks for sharing something positive and instructive. Glad you were able to not launch while being unhooked - however it happened; luck was it? - by dragging the tip? Hope you're able to work out a system that improves your chances of that not ever happening again. Again, thanks for sharing. We all need to stay vigilant.
Didn't you use to fly a Litespeed too? If so, do you still fly it as well?
Mike Bomstad - 2013/08/26 07:47:45 UTC
Thanks. That has never happened before or even close. The atos sits so low it is very tough to hook the harness in, then myself. (My normal routine)
Going to take a hard look at it.
Yes, still fly the Litespeed as well (8-15 was the most recent
piano_man - 2013/08/26 08:49:19 UTC
Georgia
Was just reading some old posts on the dreaded FTHI subject. One that stands out was posted by Rob Kells. Hook in check (lift the glider just before launch and MAKE SURE you feel the leg loops tug at you).
This one procedure I have recently (past year or so) added to my routine. There have been a handful of times (five or so) where I didn't do it - only later remembering, "Sh#%!, I didn't lift my wing just before launching."
So then I would strive to add this to my new routine, ETCH it in my mind firmly to add this procedure. When I have a wire crew, I'll inform them that I'm "lifting the glider for a hook-in check" just as we are at the top of the ramp or if pilots were nearby and no wire crew needed I'd say to them, "if you don't see me lift the glider just before I launch let me know about it later, please".
My procedure. After I pre-flight the glider and my harness separately; I hook the harness to the wing. I'll do another walk around. Chill, focus, go pee, etc.
(1) Aussie method - attach harness to the wing.
(2) Do a hang check by myself where I'm set up. Check 5 C's - Carabiner locked, Crotch (two legstraps), Chest clearance, Chin strap (helmet), Chute pins intact. I do this twice. Often repeat it with a real hang check (weight bearing hang check) usually near launch if help is there. I say everything out loud; "locked carabiner, two leg loops, chest clearance, etc..." then I'll count them while touching the parts "1, 2, 3, 4, 5. Instruments are on, VG set."
(3) Last and likely - most important - HOOK IN check just seconds before launching. I lift the glider within three or four seconds before yelling "Clear". Feeling that tug on my leg loops is the confirmation I try to make vital to my procedure.
Another thing I've heard and think it's a HUGE factor is focus. We need to stay focused, especially with regards to the hooking in thing. By no means do I try to make this automatic as NMERider has mentioned before that being on "autopilot" can get us in trouble by losing our focus. Situational awareness is so key here, well ... I feel like now I'm rambling. I'm done.
Steve Baran - 2013/08/26 12:25:07 UTC
Chattaroy
Another great tour of the Chewelah area you had! ...
But the 2nd vid - crap! Maybe we'd better not improve Jimmy's Launch. Looks like the tip drag just may have given you the out on that one!
Whenever we all fly together I honestly don't think I look at whether or not other flying pals are hooked in. Guess I just expect that we are hooked in and I concentrate more on watching the launch site winds and/or keep busy with my own setting up. I'll try to start looking straight at each of our harness attachment areas when I know a pilot should be hooked in - and holler if I see anything that doesn't look right.
Mike Bomstad - 2013/08/26 18:35:58 UTC
not improving launch, someone could get hurt - hooked in or not.
I fly a lot by myself and rely on no one but myself. (whether anyone is around or not)
I let myself be distracted, and with the atos that was a bad combination.(normally the harness is hooked in then me ,end of story)
looking around at other pilots: if they're in the harness they should be hooked in- end of story
AndRand - 2013/08/26 20:28:39 UTC
Poland
"must not carry glider in harness unhooked"
"must not carry glider in harness unhooked"
"must not carry glider in harness unhooked"
(I abandoned aussie style with first harness I couldnt put on hooked in besides imho its easier to "never" than "always" )
Yeah, maybe what happened on THE NEXT DAY greatly outweighed what happened on THAT DAY to a great enough extent that the subject title should've been something along the line of "Damn near killed my stupid ass." Then we might have had a lot better shot at getting a productive discussion out of this one.
The harness is part of the aircraft... end of story.
(Just because it's easy to remove, does not mean it should be. Dont choose the path of least resistance)
Attach it to the wing, completing the aircraft.... then preflight the completed aircraft.
Buckle yourself into the cockpit and then your ready.
Wonder Boy comes through for us again!
Glad you were able to not launch while being unhooked...
Really? About the only thing that gives me as much pleasure as one of these sanctimonious Aussie Methodist motherfuckers launching unhooked is a Rooney Linker getting inconvenienced by a pulped brain as a consequence of the increase in safety of the towing operation.
...however it happened; luck was it? - by dragging the tip?
Yes. LUCK. What usually happens with these assholes is that they unhook to check out the wingtip then pick up the glider, continue moving to launch, and...
Hope you're able to work out a system that improves your chances of that not ever happening again.
Yeah, Wonder Boy is gonna come up with a bulletproof system that nobody's ever thought of before.
Again, thanks for sharing. We all need to stay vigilant.
Yeah, that'll work. Especially after a good wake-up call like this one.
Mike Bomstad - 2013/08/26 07:47:45 UTC
Thanks. That has never happened before or even close.
It hasn't happened to YOU before. It happens to tons of idiot hang checkers and sanctimonious Aussie Methodist motherfuckers ALL THE TIME. And you're too fuckin' stupid to look around and see:
- what happens in other parts of the real world and why
- who it DOESN'T happen to and how these people are operating
The atos sits so low it is very tough to hook the harness in, then myself. (My normal routine)
Bullshit. According to proper Aussie Methodist theology there are no glider/harness combos, launch sites, or conditions in which The Sacred Ritual presents the very slightest of problems.
Was just reading some old posts on the dreaded FTHI subject. One that stands out was posted by Rob Kells.
BULLSHIT. Rob NEVER posted on any forums. What stands out is what T** at K*** S****** posted from his transcription of Rob's half-baked magazine article.
Hook in check (lift the glider just before launch and MAKE SURE you feel the leg loops tug at you).
MY GOD! Are you out of your FREAKING MIND?! All that does is...
I teach hook-in checks. I don't teach lift and tug, as it gives a false sense of security.
...give you a false sense of security!
This one procedure I have recently (past year or so) added to my routine.
This isn't "ONE PROCEDURE" that you "ADD" to your "ROUTINE". This is the beginning of every foot launch sequence and the most critical element of your flying day - and hang gliding career / life.
There have been a handful of times (five or so) where I didn't do it - only later remembering, "Sh#%!, I didn't lift my wing just before launching."
1. Well it's just one procedure you've added to your routine. Big fuckin' deal. You had your chinstrap buckled, right?
2. If your response to your neglecting to do the hook-in check is:
Sh#%!, I didn't lift my wing just before launching.
Granted, it won't be YOUR body they'll be scraping off the rocks but what kind of afternoon do you expect you'll be having after one of these happens to one of your buddies?
So then I would strive to add this to my new routine, ETCH it in my mind firmly to add this procedure.
Ya know what's a helluva lot easier to etch into your mind than this new procedure you've added to your routine? The thought of your basetube floating up to chest level three or four steps into your launch run. Etch THAT into you mind firmly and you won't have ANY PROBLEM WHATSOEVER adding that procedure to your routine EVERY TIME.
When I have a wire crew, I'll inform them that I'm "lifting the glider for a hook-in check" just as we are at the top of the ramp or if pilots were nearby and no wire crew needed I'd say to them, "if you don't see me lift the glider just before I launch let me know about it later, please".
1. When you have a wire crew you won't NEED to lift the glider for a hook-in check. The wind will do that for you if you let it. And, regardless of the hook-in check issue, you should be letting it.
2. Is the top of the ramp the place and time it's important for you to be hooked in? A lot of people who were "safely" hooked in at the top of the ramp have had really nasty surprises right after pushing off from the middle or front of the ramp.
3. Here's the USHGA regulation which covers this issue:
With each flight, demonstrates a method of establishing that the pilot is hooked in just prior to launch.
Why aren't your fuckin' crews ensuring that EVERYONE does a hook-in check JUST PRIOR TO LAUNCH? Isn't Lockout teaching everybody to do, look for, require hook-in checks?
4. You're assuming that you'll still be alive for people to tell you later that you missed the hook-in check. That's the opposite of the assumption you SHOULD HAVE. Why don't you tell people not to let you off the ramp unless they've seen you do a hook-in check within the previous two seconds?
My procedure. After I pre-flight the glider and my harness separately; I hook the harness to the wing. I'll do another walk around. Chill, focus, go pee, etc.
Irrelevant.
(1) Aussie method - attach harness to the wing.
Yeah, that was Mike's procedure. It works pretty good just about all the time.
(2) Do a hang check by myself where I'm set up.
What does Rob Kells say about hang checks?
Check 5 C's - Carabiner locked...
Does that make you safer? Have you ever heard about anyone falling out of his glider because his carabiner wasn't locked or he was using a nonlocking carabiner?
Crotch (two legstraps)...
1. You only need one.
2. Yes. Check them during preflight but you're also gonna catch them on your hook-in check.
Chest clearance...
Fuck it.
...Chin strap (helmet)...
Fuck it.
Chute pins intact.
This is a discussion about unhooked launches. We've got a BIG DEADLY problem with unhooked launches and virtually NO problem with accidental parachute deployments. Do try to stay on topic.
I do this twice.
Ditto to all of the above.
Often repeat it with a real hang check (weight bearing hang check) usually near launch if help is there.
Matt Christensen - 2011/06/02 00:21:46 UTC
Vienna, Virginia
I thought I should pass on a lesson learned from the HG Spectacular. As you may know, many of us were flying borrowed gliders at this event. After two days of flying, one of the pilots flying a borrowed glider requested a hang check, which he had done prior to every flight. During the hang check it was noticed that something looked odd with the hangstrap. Upon closer inspection it was found that the hang strap was attached to the keel using only velcro! A little tug on the velcro and the pilot dropped free.
...is a really crappy way to reassure yourself that you're safely connected to your glider.
I say everything out loud; "locked carabiner, two leg loops, chest clearance, etc..." then I'll count them while touching the parts "1, 2, 3, 4, 5. Instruments are on, VG set."
Distractions. Finish your fuckin' petty preflight bullshit, put it behind you, start focusing on the shit that actually matters.
(3) Last and likely - most important - HOOK IN check just seconds before launching. I lift the glider within three or four seconds before yelling "Clear". Feeling that tug on my leg loops is the confirmation I try to make vital to my procedure.
1. *LIKELY* most important? Are you SURE you've thought of everything? What if you've got a batten or two that haven't been fully inserted?
2. Feeling that tug on your leg loops is vital to your procedure whether you make it so or not. Trust me on this one.
Another thing I've heard and think it's a HUGE factor is focus.
1. Get one of those little red rubber wristbands from USHGA. You'll be fine.
2. BULL FUCKING SHIT. *FOCUS* is the PROBLEM here - not the SOLUTION. One hundred percent of the people who've been beat up, mangled, killed as consequences of unhooked launches have been FOCUSED on SOMETHING.
You can't afford to FOCUS on ANYTHING. You need to be CONSTANTLY *AFRAID* of launching unhooked but you also need to constantly thinking about crew, wind direction and strength, cycles, glider trim, launch run 'cause running off unhooked ain't the only way to get killed in the vicinity of a ramp.
We need to stay focused, especially with regards to the hooking in thing.
By no means do I try to make this automatic as NMERider has mentioned before that being on "autopilot" can get us in trouble by losing our focus.
1. FUCK Jonathan. He's ten miles south of totally useless on this issue.
2. Does Jonathan also tell you not to make leveling your wings and trimming your pitch just prior to starting your launch run automatic?
3. How 'bout stuffing the bar in response to a stall? Do you leave it out every once in a while to guard against being in autopilot mode in heavy turbulence?
4. So how come Jonathan isn't in this conversation representing his own positions?
Situational awareness is so key here, well ... I feel like now I'm rambling.
Yeah. You are - and have been. And you were totally on target with "Situational awareness is so key here." That's so in line with:
Rob Kells - 2005/12
Each of us agrees that it is not a particular method, but rather the fear of launching unhooked that makes us diligent to be sure we are hooked in every time before starting the launch run.
On the launch ramp the one thing that's most likely to kill you is also the one thing that's most easily guarded against. But you don't have the situational awareness / level of fear you need to really effectively deal with it.
I'm done.
You will be if one of those times you forget to do your hook-in check lines up with something that causes you to be committed to launch without being connected to your glider - like Mike was on 2013/08/18 before he totally lucked out.
Steve Baran - 2013/08/26 12:25:07 UTC
Another great tour of the Chewelah area you had! ...
Yeah Steve, let's talk about his great flight.
But the 2nd vid - crap!
No shit.
Maybe we'd better not improve Jimmy's Launch. Looks like the tip drag just may have given you the out on that one!
Maybe you should just make the same rule for Jimmy's Launch that they have for two inherently dangerous launches - Glacier and Makapu'u Points. Nobody approaches launch hooked in. That way nobody assumes he or anyone else is hooked in upon arrival at launch and nobody launches unhooked.
Whenever we all fly together I honestly don't think I look at whether or not other flying pals are hooked in.
You're all a bunch of total fucking morons who can't conceive of the possibility of anyone being in launch position without being hooked in and having his leg loops.
Guess I just expect that we are hooked in and I concentrate more on watching the launch site winds and/or keep busy with my own setting up.
Exactly what everyone has always been doing in the minutes and seconds immediately preceding every unhooked launch fatality in the history of the sport.
I'll try to start looking straight at each of our harness attachment areas when I know a pilot should be hooked in - and holler if I see anything that doesn't look right.
1. You'll TRY? Fuck you. That's a translation of, "I'm gonna keep on doing exactly what I've been doing before and will be hoping for improved results."
2. What's your problem with insisting that your fucking "PALS" do the fucking hook-in checks as per their rating requirements and as per what piano_man is babbling somewhat coherently about?
Mike Bomstad - 2013/08/26 18:35:58 UTC
not improving launch, someone could get hurt - hooked in or not.
If you have absolutely no intention of doing or looking for anything remotely resembling a hook-in check - which is, in fact, the case - why do give the least hint of a flying fuck whether or not the launch is improved? "Well, I've got a badly frayed sidewire but look at these really cool decals I just got for my helmet!"
I fly a lot by myself and rely on no one but myself. (whether anyone is around or not)
What a frightening thought. Or it would be if I gave a rat's ass about you.
I let myself be distracted, and with the atos that was a bad combination.(normally the harness is hooked in then me ,end of story)
looking around at other pilots: if they're in the harness they should be hooked in- end of story
Total fucking moron. Do keep your cameras running - these videos are so useful for getting through to evolutionary biology skeptics.
But, what the hell, Mike. If we don't keep taking risks like these then life will escape us a little faster.
AndRand - 2013/08/26 20:28:39 UTC
"must not carry glider in harness unhooked"
"must not carry glider in harness unhooked"
"must not carry glider in harness unhooked"
(I abandoned aussie style with first harness I couldnt put on hooked in besides imho its easier to "never" than "always" )
Let's rewrite that post:
AndRand - 2013/08/26 20:28:39 UTC
I abandoned Aussie style with the first harness I couldn't put on hooked in. It's easier to "never" than "always".
Now it sounds less like incoherent babbling and more like:
Helen McKerral - 2010/09/07 00:16:04 UTC
South Australia
Basically, the idea is that no matter whether you use the Aussie method or not (another emotive topic), or how you do your hang check (step through or hang, look, feel, whatever) the VERY LAST THING you do immediately before every launch is to lift the glider up off your shoulders so the hangstrap goes tight and you FEEL the tug of your legloops around your groin/thighs.
More important, I think, is a change in mindset: that you constantly assume that you are NOT hooked in. That is the default mindset and only after you've done the lift and tug - immediately before every launch - do you decide you're hooked in. Also, because the default assumption is negative rather than positive, you are much less likely to start any run unhooked.
The way I've tried to incorporate it is to make L&T the first part of the physical act of lifting the glider to my shoulders in preparation for launch ie instead of lifting it to my shoulders, I lift it higher (L&T), then lower it to my shoulders, then start my run. In strong conditions this is more difficult but I often launch with a tight hangstrap then anyway (always in the Malibu, occasionally in the Litesport).
I've adopted the lift and tug but I'm an old dog learning a new trick and I still forget to do it some of the time. However, although I've found that it's very hard to remember to do if you try to remember 'L&T', if you change your mindset to, "I'm not hooked in", it's easier to recall. It would be easier if I had learned it from the start, so it was a physical muscle memory instilled from my first days on the training hill, just like the grapevine grip changing to bottle.
Even if you don't follow the "mindset" part, it's an extra layer of security and there is no possible harm in it if it is an *additional* check; for me, a third one after Aussie method (hook harness to glider), hang check (look at biner, feel loop and riser, tug each leg strap), then walk to launch, do whatever (wait, set glider down etc.) and then the final lift and tug as I pick up my glider immediately before I start my run.
The harness is part of the aircraft... end of story.
(Just because it's easy to remove, does not mean it should be. Dont choose the path of least resistance)
Attach it to the wing, completing the aircraft.... then preflight the completed aircraft.
Buckle yourself into the cockpit and then your ready.
and back up:
- three posts
- eleven hours, fourteen minutes, eleven seconds
- to my last post
prior to your idiot semiliterate mini-rant you will find me quoting most of Rob Kells' response to the Bill Priday assumption-of-connection fatality which addresses your idiot approach and NAILS the reason you got killed that Sunday:
Rob Kells - 2005/12
The Oz method for ensuring hook-in: Attach the harness to the glider first, then get into the harness.
"Knowing" that if you are in your harness you must be hooked in, means that is something comes up that causes you to unhook for any reason, you are actually in greater danger of thinking you are hooked in when you are not. This happened to a pilot who used the Oz Method for several years and then went to the training hill for some practice flights. He unhooked from the glider to carry it up the hill. At the top, sitting under the glider with his harness on, he picked up the glider and launched unhooked. Fortunately he was not hurt... but I bet he was very surprised.
not that that one is exactly rocket science.
The idiot Aussie Method conditions you to assume that if you're in a harness and under a glider you're connected to it. And as soon as you're in a situation in which connecting the harness to the glider before entry is sufficiently impossible, dangerous, difficult, inconvenient you're gonna break routine and then you're fucked. And that's precisely and predictably what got you killed for the purpose of the exercise.
And what kept you from being killed for real was that AFTER your lethally flawed setup and preflight procedures and BEFORE you committed to launch...
1:15 - Set it down lean forward to see if I can see anything
...you ACCIDENTALLY did a hook-in check.
But Mike Bomstad being Mike Bomstad you're gonna continue putting your faith in the idiot pain-in-the-ass religious ritual that almost got you killed and totally rejecting and form whatsoever of the very easy and simple procedure which kept your idiot pain-in-the-ass religious ritual from killing you.
I fly a lot by myself and rely on no one but myself. (whether anyone is around or not)
I let myself be distracted, and with the atos that was a bad combination.(normally the harness is hooked in then me ,end of story)
looking around at other pilots: if they're in the harness they should be hooked in- end of story
hiya bud, i fly an atos (vr) as well...thanks for posting this and i enjoy your other videos btw... in the 37+ yrs. i've been flying i've been lucky enough to never have experienced this (notice i said lucky)...
Yes. I DID notice you said "LUCKY".
i'd like to think that my little ritual has been a part of this.
I'd like to think that if I fail to maintain the correct tow position (centered, with the wheels of the tug on the horizon), the weak link will break before I can get into too much trouble.
even when i'm alone on launch, before i walk the last few steps to launch, i say out loud, "hooked in, locked, leg loops!!...just sayin' john s.
Yes. JUST SAYING. So much more convenient than ACTUALLY VERIFYING. Douchebag.
k0harmer
Moyes harness requires "Aussie method".
It can't be connected to the glider with the pilot in it? I'm guessing "Bullshit." would be a pretty good response.
Mike Bomstad
Yes thats my normal procedure on my flex, the rigid does not give me enough room to
And the tolerances are much too narrow for the pilot to be able to get the suspension tight while standing in launch position.
Chris Valley
Well, let's say your awareness as just been heightened 10 fold from here on out...glad you caught it...
Yeah. Awareness.
Luen Miller - 1994/09
The second pilot was distracted by backing off launch to get his helmet, which he had forgotten. While doing so he thought of a pilot who launched unhooked at Lookout Mountain as a result of the distraction of retrieving his helmet. Our pilot then proceeded to launch unhooked.
That's the ticket!
looked like you were the only one on launch...possibly last to launch?
Yeah, no fuckin' way he'll ever make a mistake like THAT again. It would be a total waste of time for him to start doing anything like THIS:
Ok, this thread's a million miles long already (and mostly my fault at that), so I'm not going to feel bad about making it a tad longer.
A couple things to chew on here...
There isn't one sure-fire answer.
If there was, we'd all be doing it already. This thread I think makes this obvious... every single thing people have put forth as "the way", someone else has show how it can fail. Every single one. Argue about the details, but every single one fails.
Here's the real trick of it in my book (especially with new technology, but it applies to methods too)...
Whatever you change only works on that glider/site/whatever.
What happens when you're off flying somewhere else or flying someone else's gear?
Someone suggested putting a red flag on the nose of the glider that gets removed after the hang check... this way, if you haven't hooked in, it's really obvious. Say this works for you and you get used to it. Then you borrow a glider or fly a different site on a rented glider. In your world, no red streamer means "good to go".
Take aussie vs clipin if you like... what happens when you're at a site that you can't use the aussie method with? (I can name you some cliff launches that you can't if you care). Now you're used to the security of the aussie method, and it's not there. You might say that the fear will help you, but your instincts will say otherwise (the fear is highlevel thought, and highlevel thought is the first thing that gets tossed out of your brain.. else we'd never launch unhooked in the first place).
Argue if you will about the examples (whatever), the trick of it isn't the method to me, it's how using new things doesn't work (and actually causes problems) in strange ways (like when going back to "normal" flying after getting used to the new method/device).
Enough about what doesn't work though... what does?
Since we don't have a plug that only fits one way, we fall on lesser methods, but some are better than others...
In particular... Third Party Verification.
You won't save you, but your friends might.
Not always, but they're more reliable than you.
Why do you think that airline checklists (yes our lovely checklists) are check-verified by pilot AND copilot?
That's all I got for ya.
The other topics have been beat to death here.
If there was an answer, we'd all already be doing it.
...others, preferably friends, are our only hope. (Hook-in checks are of no value whatsoever because if they were we'd all already be doing them.)
Glenn Zapien
Scary shit. The thought of almost launching unhooked would have been hard for me to stay focused after that.
1. The thought of launching unhooked EVERY TIME...
Rob Kells - 2005/12
Each of us agrees that it is not a particular method, but rather the fear of launching unhooked that makes us diligent to be sure we are hooked in every time before starting the launch run.
...is PRECISELY what keeps people who DON'T have total shit for brains from EVER launching unhooked.
2. Stay focused to accomplish WHAT of any importance? After a pooch screw of that magnitude what else could POSSIBLY matter?
Glad that wingtip did it for you. Really glad.
Me too!
Hey, here's a thought... What if he deliberately dragged a wingtip en route to launch EVERY TIME - preferably on a rock? Then he'd be motivated to set the glider down and lean forward to see if he can see anything every time.
We could install rocks on the sides of approaches to ALL launches, train people to drag their wingtips over them, install signs, have launch marshals to make sure people dragged their wingtips over them. This issue would disappear overnight.
Mike Bomstad
Yeah, it was tough to focus. Still couldn't believe it.
NOT having total shit for brains I COULD believe it the very first time I heard of unhooked launches and through every foot launch of the rest of my career.
Thought I had a good routing and check list.
So good, in fact, that you felt qualified enough to issue the first and last word on unhooked launches...
The harness is part of the aircraft... end of story.
(Just because it's easy to remove, does not mean it should be. Dont choose the path of least resistance)
Attach it to the wing, completing the aircraft.... then preflight the completed aircraft.
Buckle yourself into the cockpit and then your ready.
...and ignore everything everyone else not aligned with you idiot mindset was saying.
Couple of distractions was all it took. When I should have turned & hooked in, I saw a stick jammed in the flap cord cleat. Futzing with that trying to dig it out & thinking about the R tip wand that popped loose twice after tensioning.
And your career-long practices of conditioning yourself to assume that any time you're in a harness and standing under a glider and never making the slightest pretense of complying with USHGA's hook-in check regulation had ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with the near death progression of things.
I got lucky
You've been lucky your entire miserable career. Most of the time people are lucky enough to get away bullshit like:
Recommended breaking load of a weak link for surface-based towing is from 100% to 120% of the towed weight. This will usually be approximately 90-135 kg (200-300 lb) for solo operations.
Experienced pilots flying in turbulent conditions may prefer weak links at the higher end of the range, while less experienced pilots and students (at the discretion of their instructor) should be at or below the low end of that range. A single loop (two strands) of #205 leech line should be adequate for solo flights, and three strands should be good for tandem flights.
Four strands of 130 lb test braided dacron kite string (a single loop folded through the tow line loop with sides on or through the release, resulting in an actual breaking strength of about 230 lb), is sufficient for average solo pilots. 150 lb test can be used for tandem flights and larger pilots. The total strength of the weak link does not equal the sum of the strengths of the individual strands because of the effects of the rings.
Aerotowing operations should use weak links which will break at a tow force of 80% to 100% of the total towed weight (usually 90-114 kg or 200-250 lb). Since two-point bridles are usually used, if the weak link is at one end of the bridle rather than at the end of the tow rope, the weak link itself must break at less than half of the maximum allowable tow force. A single loop of 60 kg (130 lb) braided fishing line, or a single loop of #205 leech line slightly weakened by an extra overhand knot, should give an acceptable 55 kg (120 lb) breaking strength, limiting the tow force to 109 kg (240 lb).
Tandem operations should use weak links of 100% or less of the towed weight for surface towing, usually approximately 175-180 kg (385-400 lb), and 80% or less for aerotowing.
3.4.2 - Weak Link Specifications For Paragliders
Recommended breaking load is 75% or less of the towed weight.
Fuck you. You NEVER check that one - when it matters anyway.
pepersorte
Over the years I have seen lots of this, people actualy take off uncliped. It is because they sit on front of ridge to see how glider fill when it is not good they sit there hoping conditions will get better. suddenly it can and they forget they never clipped in. I never sit on a ridge, if I do not take of I move back as soon as unclipped. Thank god never done it myself yet.. Touch wood. thanks for showing, Cheers, Pete
BULLSHIT. People launch unhooked for ONE REASON and ONE REASON only. Two seconds prior to launch they assume they're hooked in. Any bullshit strategy for dealing with any other perceived issue is a distraction and will INCREASE the rate of unhooked launches.
. It was this flight that motivated me to go to Lookout Mountain, GA this past August and earn my Hang 2.
besides imho its easier to "never" than "always" 
)
