http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24846
Is this a joke ?
Jim Rooney - 2011/08/26 10:11:31 UTC
Oh, btw... before you go there, cuz it is where you're headed... please note the word "Guidelines".
And oh, by the way... While you're going there please note the words "AND ITS *SUPPLEMENTS*".
And here's one of its most important SUPPLEMENTS - albeit one which USHGA went to great lengths to conceal from its membership for a couple months shy of eight years (until Dr. Trisa Tilletti published his total bullshit article showing how USHGA had been operating legally during that entire period by throwing all solo gliders up on single loops of 130 pound Greenspot and all tandems up on doubles):
CFR > Title 14 > Chapter I > Subchapter F > Part 91 > Subpart D > Section 91.309
§ 91.309 Towing: Gliders and unpowered ultralight vehicles.
(a) No person may operate a civil aircraft towing a glider or unpowered ultralight vehicle unless-
- (1) The pilot in command of the towing aircraft is qualified under § 61.69 of this chapter;
- (2) The towing aircraft is equipped with a tow-hitch of a kind, and installed in a manner, that is approved by the Administrator;
- (3) The towline used has breaking strength not less than 80 percent of the maximum certificated operating weight of the glider or unpowered ultralight vehicle and not more than twice this operating weight. However, the towline used may have a breaking strength more than twice the maximum certificated operating weight of the glider or unpowered ultralight vehicle if-
-- (i) A safety link is installed at the point of attachment of the towline to the glider or unpowered ultralight vehicle with a breaking strength not less than 80 percent of the maximum certificated operating weight of the glider or unpowered ultralight vehicle and not greater than twice this operating weight;
-- (ii) A safety link is installed at the point of attachment of the towline to the towing aircraft with a breaking strength greater, but not more than 25 percent greater, than that of the safety link at the towed glider or unpowered ultralight vehicle end of the towline and not greater than twice the maximum certificated operating weight of the glider or unpowered ultralight vehicle;
- (4) Before conducting any towing operation within the lateral boundaries of the surface areas of Class B, Class C, Class D, or Class E airspace designated for an airport, or before making each towing flight within such controlled airspace if required by ATC, the pilot in command notifies the control tower. If a control tower does not exist or is not in operation, the pilot in command must notify the FAA flight service station serving that controlled airspace before conducting any towing operations in that airspace; and
- (5) The pilots of the towing aircraft and the glider or unpowered ultralight vehicle have agreed upon a general course of action, including takeoff and release signals, airspeeds, and emergency procedures for each pilot.
(b) No pilot of a civil aircraft may intentionally release a towline, after release of a glider or unpowered ultralight vehicle, in a manner that endangers the life or property of another.
[Doc. No. 18834, 54 FR 34308, Aug. 18, 1989, as amended by Amdt. 91-227, 56 FR 65661, Dec. 17, 1991; Amdt. 91-282, 69 FR 44880, July 27, 2004]
Note the reference to...
The pilot in command of the towing aircraft is qualified under § 61.69 of this chapter...
..."the Pilot In Command of the TOWING AIRCRAFT". Note that the FAA does NOT ever refer to him as "the Pilot In Command of the towing aircraft AND the unpowered ultralight vehicle".
http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3600
Weak link question
Jim Rooney - 2008/11/24 05:18:15 UTC
Well, I'm assuming there was some guff about the tug pilot's right of refusal?
Gee, didn't think we'd have to delve into "pilot in command"... I figured that one's pretty well understood in a flying community.
It's quite simple.
The tug is a certified aircraft... the glider is an unpowered ultralight vehicle. The tug pilot is the pilot in command. You are a passenger. You have the same rights and responsibilities as a skydiver.
It's a bitter pill I'm sure, but there you have it.
The Pilot In Command...
Made at least three flights as pilot in command of a glider or unpowered ultralight vehicle...
...of an unpowered ultralight vehicle has the same rights and responsibilities as the fucking Pilot In Command of a fucking certified and registered sailplane.
http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=30971
Zach Marzec
Jim Rooney - 2013/02/16 05:05:41 UTC
Ok, keyboard in hand.
I've got a bit of time, but I'm not going to write a dissertation... so either choose to try to understand what I'm saying, or (as is most often the case) don't.
I don't care.
Here's a little bit of bitter reality that ya'll get to understand straight off. I won't be sugar coating it, sorry.
You see, I'm on the other end of that rope.
I want neither a dead pilot on my hands or one trying to kill me.
And yes. It is my call. PERIOD.
On tow, I am the PIC.
Now, that cuts hard against every fiber of every HG pilot on the planet and I get that.
Absolutely no HG pilot likes hearing it. Not me, not no one. BUT... sorry, that's the way it is.
Accept it and move on.
Not only can you not change it, it's the law... in the very literal sense.
Here's a little bit of bitter reality that you need to understand straight off. I won't be sugarcoating it, sorry.
You see, I'm on the other end of that rope. I don't really give a rat's ass what happens to the guys on the front end 'cause they're pretty much all total fucking assholes who, collectively, have done ENORMOUS damage to the sport of hang gliding, ruined a lot of the best flying opportunities a lot of people will ever see, crashed a lot of gliders, and killed a fair number of the people on it.
I care about ME and getting to altitude safely and efficiently. You do the same and we'll get along fine. You violate the law, deviate from the flight plan, try to act as Pilot In Command of MY plane, endanger me I'll take you to court and have your balls torn off.
It is was your call - PERIOD...
Mr. Orders, as Pilot In Command, was solely responsible for the safety of his passenger.
...to launch that tandem with the same number of harnesses connected to the glider as Jon Orders did so you deserve EXACTLY the same treatment got - even if your victim DID luck out pretty well on the outcome.
On tow, I am the PIC.
On tow you are A Pilot In Command - or you would be in an imaginary world in which you could attain enough in the way of brains and competence to be considered a PILOT. You're the one driving the expendable gas guzzling piece of junk that's supposed to be SERVING this sport and we're the ones who pay you to do the job. You're the equivalent of some jerk who drives a glider laden truck up the mountain, drops the PILOTS and gear off so's they can fly, then drives back down for another load.
Now, that cuts hard against every fiber of every Dragonfly driving douchebag on the planet and it's really hard to get you guys to pull your heads out of your asses enough to get it but, sorry, that's the way it is. Not only can you not change it, it's the law... in the very literal sense - motherfucker.
Note that it is ILLEGAL to tow ANYTHING with ANYTHING that BREAKS - and anything that breaks...
Donnell Hewett, well respected for his knowledge of towing, bridles, and weak links:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/skysailingtowing/message/4597
Weaklinks
2005/02/08 23:28:13 UTC
Every towing system, without exception, contains a weaklink. It may be a string or mechanical device deliberately inserted into the towline, the towline itself, the release mechanism, the flying wires of the glider, the pilot's harness (when body towing), or some other component of the pilot-glider-tug system. But something eventually is going to be the first thing to break. That thing is the weaklink.
...towline, tow ring, bridle, release, back end weak link, tow mast breakaway, tow mast breakaway protector is THE weak link - at under eighty percent of the max certified operating weight of whatever's on the back end - regardless of any OPINIONS of any assholes on either end of the string or on the ground running a flight park or pecker measuring contest.
And NO, Trisa, it is NOT legal to fly on weak links of ASSUMED or WIDELY *BELIEVED* strengths and claim that bench test results are invalid because you and I both know that lab tests may produce results with good internal validity, but are often weak in regard to external validity--meaning lab conditions cannot completely include all the factors and variability that exist in the big, real world. And fuck your sleazy backgrounds in formal research.
Note that it says:
A safety link is installed at the point of attachment of the towline to the glider or unpowered ultralight vehicle...
and NOT...
http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=21377
AT several Questions
Jim Rooney - 2011/04/02 18:08:49 UTC
Long bridals released under tension tend to grab things. It doesn't matter what you have on the tow rope. The day that thing snags, you will wish that you had a release on the other side as well. A weak link is also sufficient.
...on one end of a bridle 'cause, hell, you've got some bent pin piece of crap on the other - and a hook knife for when that welds itself shut.
Note that it says the same thing...
A safety link is installed at the point of attachment of the towline to the towing aircraft...
...for the same reason...
Towing Aloft - 1998/01
I witnessed a tug pilot descend low over trees. His towline hit the trees and caught. His weak link broke but the bridle whipped around the towline and held it fast. The pilot was saved by the fact that the towline broke!
...for the tug's weak link configuration. What's your Plan B for that one - asshole? At least there are a few gliders out there fully weak link protected. The number of Dragonflies fully protected is ZERO 'cause...
As I said.
Been through this shit a million freaking times.
Please quit trying to educate me about my job.
...none of you off the scale stupid motherfuckers will tolerate anyone trying to educate him about his job. And I sincerely hope that the NEXT TIME the towline hits the trees and catches, THE weak link breaks, and the bridle wraps at the tow ring that the towline DOESN'T break. You assholes still won't put a weak link at the other end of the bridle and/or the front end of the towline but it'll be fun to watch the discussions you'll have about light polypro towlines, steeper approaches, faster deploying ballistic parachutes, heavier helmets, tree removal, and what a really great guy he was and how he died doing what he loved.
...with a breaking strength greater, but not more than 25 percent greater, than that of the safety link at the towed glider or unpowered ultralight vehicle end of the towline and not greater than twice the maximum certificated operating weight of the glider or unpowered ultralight vehicle
Yeah right.
- The whole idiot Dragonfly is designed around a breakaway tow mast which would blow at the same tension as the weak link you originally used on the tug bridle which was the same weak link you used on all tandem gliders which was based upon a bunch of idiot bullshit assumptions you pulled out of your asses.
- Then you worked out over the course of several decades of experience and hundreds of thousands of tows conducted by numerous aerotow operators across the county that a breakaway tow mast designed to break away at the same tension it took to blow a four strand weak link would break away at the same tension it took to blow a four strand weak link.
- Then after some really embarrassing questions from Yours Truly...
Tad Eareckson - 2008/11/24 06:16:08 UTC
Would someone - Brian, Janni, Lauren, ANYONE - PLEASE PLEASE explain to me how the tug's ass is endangered by a double loop ONLY when it's on a SOLO glider but not at all when it's on a TANDEM?
...and a few more hundreds of thousands of tows conducted by numerous aerotow operators across the county you worked out that the back end weak link couldn't override your three strander and started not giving much of a rat's ass who got left with the rope - seeing how it had become a certainty...
http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24534
It's a wrap
Lauren Tjaden - 2011/07/29 15:16:29 UTC
I was flying a tandem this morning, and when I released (from the three point bridle) the line briefly released and then wrapped around the 'biner that we tow from. The sharp, strong pull almost immediately broke the weak link on the tug plane, which of course left me with the rope. I released the bridle from my shoulders (with the barrel release) and dropped the rope over the field without incident.
When I retrieved the rope and bridle after the flight, I was shocked at how profoundly the line had wrapped around the 'biner. I have heard about the line being able to wrap, but in thousands of aerotows I have never experienced it. I thought readers might be interested to see actually happens.
Secondly, although the weak link wasn't tremendously large, in retrospect in could have been smaller. Apparently the longer the weak link the greater its propensity to wrap. I also included a photo showing the size of the weak link. (I removed it from the 'biner after taking the photos.) Just a reminder for folks to keep their weak links on the stingy side.
...that the tandem would get it a hundred percent of the time anyway - along with most solos flying in the middle of the legal range.
The pilots of the towing aircraft and the glider or unpowered ultralight vehicle...
Note that it refers to TWO PILOTS - not the Pilot In Command at the safe end and the muppet passenger at the dangerous end. And I wonder what kind of total asshole signs off another total asshole...
http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=17404
Aerotow barrel release - straight or curved pin?
Jim Rooney - 2010/05/31 01:53:13 UTC
BTW, Steve Wendt is exceptionally knowledgeable. Hell, he's the one that signed off my instructor rating.
...without that point being made blindingly clear.
...have agreed upon a general course of action, including takeoff and release signals, airspeeds, and emergency procedures for each pilot.
Bullshit.
Davis Straub - 2011/08/28 15:26:28 UTC
Then again, Russell Brown had us double up behind him after six breaks in a row at Zapata. We couldn't figure out why we had so many breaks so quickly. Maybe just coincidence.
- There can't be any PLANS for a flight when the REAL Pilot In Command is a loop of 130 pound fishing line - and the CAUSE...
http://ozreport.com/9.032
The Worlds - weaklinks
Davis Straub - 2005/02/07
For a couple of years I have flown with a doubled weaklink because, flying with a rigid wing glider, I have found that there is little reason to expect trouble on tow, except from a weaklink break.
...of nearly all emergency situations encountered and crashes in hang glider aerotowing.
- And the second most problematic emergency encountered - and the one most likely to result in a serious injury or death - simply cannot be dealt with using the shit equipment you compel everyone to fly with. Your options are to fight for control and slam in because you didn't release:
http://ozreport.com/pub/images/fingerlakesaccident2.jpg
http://ozreport.com/pub/images/fingerlakesaccident3.jpg
or execute the easy reach to your "release" and slam in because you stopped fighting for control:
01-001
04-200
07-300
10-307
15-413
Either way you're gonna slam in and Davis - who's been at an around all this plenty long enough to understand what's what and who's who - comes out better after doing nothing than Ollie comes out by doing something.
I think we should get another FAA Exemption for a blanket emergency procedure being "Hope it doesn't happen - 'cause if it does you're FUCKED." How 'bout it, Mister Jim Keen-Intellect Rooney? Sound like a good plan?
No pilot of a civil aircraft may intentionally release a towline, after release of a glider or unpowered ultralight vehicle, in a manner that endangers the life or property of another.
But if it's an UNintentional release as a result of an illegally light front end weak link...
http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=865
Tandem pilot and passenger death
Mike Van Kuiken - 2005/10/10 18:44:27 UTC
I watched the glider come almost straight down from about 250 feet. I saw that Jeremiah was doing the takeoff right from the start and I watched him get pretty low on the tow as the tug crossed the road at the end of the runway.
Mike Van Kuiken - 2005/10/13 19:47:26 UTC
The weak link broke from the tow plane side. The towline was found underneath the wreck, and attached to the glider by the weaklink. The glider basically fell on the towline.
...and the towline stays with the glider until and long after it's slammed in near a road and whoever's under it is dead it's perfectly OK, right?
That way when a weak link breaks on you, ITS A NON-ISSUE. Genius huh??? 
Very poor taste, Bob.
