Releases

[Tad Eareckson]

AH! I just found a nice picture of a Wichard 2673 with the factory installed lanyard:

http://www.wichard.com/fiche-A|WICHARD|2673-0202040301000000-ME.html


Click the zoom button.

There's a hole drilled through the body where you see the lanyard descending into it - narrow at the bottom, enlarged at the top.
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2016/04/06 13:20:00 UTC

See Quest Air abortion at bottom of post.
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You feed the lanyard down through it, tie an Overhand Knot as a stop, and draw it back into the body and seat it. You can see this easily if you've got a spinnaker shackle nearby.

?

By "unboosted" I mean you're just pulling straight back (down - in that photo) on the latch with no mechanical advantage - the way it was with the original Lookout "Release". (Zack can tell you all about those.)

With the factory installed lanyard you're boosting it with a two to one mechanical advantage - ignoring friction and assuming you're pulling straight back.

With the way I had it rigged for my glider:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/aerotowrelease/8305428629/


you're also boosting it about two to one using the pulley system - not quite actually because, although the friction is pretty low, you're not pulling straight back.

With a brake lever, à la Wallaby, you're - in theory anyway - getting a about a four to one boost. (I once did a crude test and found that when you when you squeezed the lever about four (call it) millimeters you pulled in about one millimeter of cable.

BUT...

The thing's junk 'cause:

- There's friction and slop in the cable.

- There's a limit to how much you can squeeze the lever before it bottoms out on the tubing to which it's velcroed and if your adjustment is off one way it won't stay closed (which was the catalyst in the Rob Richardson fatality) and if it's off on the other you're going to have to figure out some other way of getting off tow.

- It's a draggy piece of crap and you'll be lucky to get one on a basetube and have it work.

Then the goons on the Quest Perfection Squad totally butchered the spinnaker shackle's inherent mechanical advantage by drilling and reconfiguring it such that the load pulled out on the gate rather than forward on the pivot point. (And I thought what Wallaby had already done to it was an atrocity.)

If it is, some French pilots are using Wichard at the apex of the one point bridle AND UNBOOSTED

Not if it's a cable lanyard assembly with a lever on the other end - but it's still a crappy way to do things.

Am I right ?

Assuming no or ignoring a brake lever - yes.

How do you consider the use of a Wichard with a 1 point bridle...

I don't. The whole notion is certifiably insane. I was just using it to compare the arithmetic.

...as you pointed the fact that wl on this release shouldn't be used, and your bridlelink is thin too.. ?

I used to and would again (if I had to) fly a spinnaker shackle. They're acceptably reliable enough IF they're rigged properly and the weak link loop is the right size (as in my photo above).

THIN isn't the problem - the size of the loop is. Too small and you pull a Robin, too large and you pull a Lauren.

Robin Strid's configuration was lunatic. He wasn't using a bridle and directly engaged a weak link on the end of the towline. The people who permitted that were ALL assholes. Saw competitors doing the SAME IDIOT THING at the Ridgely East Coast Championships no more than a year and a half later. If anything happens (and we know it DOES all the time) you can't get to it and you don't have a backup release (and I DO mean BACKUP in this connotation).

http://ozreport.com/9.042
No to the Spinnaker release

Davis Straub - 2005/02/21

Robin's spinnaker shackle was hooked directly to the tow line. I'm thinking that in this case the weaklink twisted at the end of the tow line (woven spectra, by the way, with Bobby Bailey at the other end on a Moyes-Bailey Dragonfly), and that caused the weaklink to bind around the leg of the spinnaker release.

Bullshit.

- Davis? Thinking? Right.

- There's NO FREAKIN' WAY that towline developed enough twist while it was trailing during landing to wind that weak link closed on the spinnaker shackle gate.

My guess is that he cut the string too short for the number of loops he wanted and tried to make it work.

The risk involved with the gate can be managed. (But with enough monkeys and enough typewriters...)

What most bothers me about the spinnaker shackle is that it chews up the weak link each time you release under any tension. And I'm never letting it do that to one of my Bridle Links - they're too hard to make to allow anyone to abuse them that way.

No one else knows 2 point AT (pilot+glider)
Everyone here learnt with 1 point (pilot only)

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TUGS/

Mark Knight - 2011/02/10 02:06:57 UTC
Tempe

With the increase in Gasoline and other such nessesities to tugging. Is anyone thinking about raising tug rates? We have been charging 20.00 to 2000 feet for a long time and wondered what the going rates are around the USA. I would be interested in what everyone is charging for: Solo pilots. Tandem Pilots and Student/Tandem flights. Thanks

Eric Thorstenson - 2011/02/10 11:46:59 UTC
Wannabe Ranch Crew
Morton, Washington

Hey Mark and group,

We charge $10 per 1000' and of course no one is getting rich doing this, however we have a hell of a lot of fun!

We have no plans to increase our rates for tows.

What I am more concerned about is USHGA's new requirement for the aerotow rating and having to do two tandems to show proficiency.

Not sure about everyone outside of the large flight parks but this has a HUGE impact on us smaller tow parks and what it will cost us to get people a rating. We have a hard time as it is and now this....not long after the private pilot issue. What's next?

Tad Eareckson - 2011/02/10 17:14:22 UTC

Back in the Eighties we learned to fly on hills, put three-ring releases on our shoulders, hooked up behind Cosmos trikes, ran like hell, stuffed the bar for all we were worth, and figured it out on the way up. Wasn't the greatest way to do the job but it worked OK and I don't recall any necks getting broken as a consequence.

The big flight parks are gonna fight to the death against equipment standards which ground the kinda crap that got Shane Smith killed a couple of weeks ago but they don't seem to have any problem whatsoever encouraging bullshit regulations to help them gouge student pilots a little more.

Tracy Tillman - 2011/02/10 20:08:32 UTC

Hey Tad. It's a big country, there must be a bunch of small not-for-profit sailplane clubs that teach aerotowing who can't afford a two-place glider. It would seem that you are saying that, whether in hang gliding or sailplanes, all the clubs and schools that have two-place gliders use them just so they can gouge students rather than trying to provide good aerotow training.

You can really prove the bullshit part if you can share with us the curriculum or even the urls of the sailplane clubs in your area that teach students or experienced airplane pilots to aerotow sailplanes using only solo flights.

Anybody who is truly a good pilot, in any form of aviation, knows that the knowledge, skills, and judgement you have in your head, learned from thorough instruction from a good instructor with a good curriculum, are the best pieces of equipment you can fly with. Good equipment is important, the best equipment is a well-trained brain. The ironic thing about flight training is that it is the student who avoids getting thorough instruction because they are paranoid about getting gouged is actually self-gouging a chunk of knowledge they should have out of their own brain.

At our club, the minimum cost for an experienced hang glider pilot to learn and show they have the aerotowing skills needed get an aerotow rating per the regs, with two tandems to 2500 feet ($90 each) and three solo flights to 2500 feet ($20 each) is $180 + $60 = $240. That's about the cost of a hang gliding helmet. The bullshit part is saying that cost, relative to the cost of five solo-only flights, is too expensive.

Screw you again, Tracy.
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http://ozreport.com/forum/files/20160321_232034_101.jpg

[miguel]

Here is a new one:

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=22739
LINKNIFE 2 STAGE TOW RELEASE

[deltaman]

FRENCH TOUCH

Look at 2 "french" ways to set up a 1 point Wichard (wl on the tow line between ring and a quicklink)

No mechanical advantage in either !



and

http://www.flickr.com/photos/psucvollibre/6010899238/


Then, will you give me that ? :

So in this configuration let me try to compare ratio (regarding the tow line tension) with a barrel:
barrel with bridle: 40.8
Wichard at the apex of the one point bridle AND UNBOOSTED: 16.1

WICHARD/1 POINT BRIDLE

How do you consider the use of a Wichard with a 1 point bridle...

I don't. The whole notion is certifiably insane.

Why ?

LEARNING AT

I'm not sure to understand if you are agree or not with the "Tracy", but seems to me good to make a tandem to discover AT and then use a 2 point, first of all for the lanyard on the hand..
Learning AT by 1 point was for all something like hazing..

[Tad Eareckson]

Antoine,

Look at 2 "french" ways...

I'm not sure I understand how the pilot is supposed to actuate the first one. Is he just supposed to grab the knotted end of the little red "cordelette 3mm" with his fingers and give it a pull? If so, at least put a ball on its end.

...and...

HEY! It looks like somebody's been stealing somebody else's spinnaker shackle and using it for his release.

ATTENTION: That spinnaker shackle NEEDS to be swiveled 180 degrees such that the gate is on the left (top in the photo). Otherwise you're pulling back on the latch close to its pivot point and reducing your mechanical advantage (leverage).

Otherwise... The lanyard arrangement isn't bad. In fact that's pretty much how I had my spinnaker shackle configured for two point when I first went up with it in 1994. Rob Kells and Dave Glover both pronounced it "well engineered".

At that time and for nearly seven years afterwards the bottom end of the lanyard was configured as it is in:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/aerotowrelease/8318571258/


except there was nothing inside the basetube and the lanyard was just tied to the basetube. To release you just swatted the middle of the exposed lanyard (where it cut the corner between the down and base tubes).

A REALLY SCARY lockout at safe altitude (eleven hundred feet) on a REALLY GOOD day - 2001/04/26 - convinced me that anyone telling you that it was acceptable to fly an aerotow release which required you to take a hand off the basetube was totally full of shit.

As it was I clamped death grips with both hands on the basetube and waited for the 130 Greenspot to blow - which I was confident it would 'cause it just had for no reason beyond a bit of bumpiness at five hundred feet on my previous effort to get up and enjoy the day.

I knew I COULD have let go and gone for the release but that probably wouldn't have helped to reduce the severity of the lockout - which rolled me to about eighty degrees and wouldn't have been survivable no matter what at a low enough altitude.

Note: If those Ridgely douchebags hadn't put me up on the "260 pound" loop that was already threatening to structurally overload my glider I'd have gotten up on the first tow been able to go XC with everyone else that day - instead of having to relaunch in potentially dangerous conditions, lock out severely, and become too exhausted by the unsuccessful efforts and restaging to give it a third try with an hour and a half of prime time soaring window already down the toilet.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/skysailingtowing/message/4593
Weaklinks

Peter Birren - 2005/02/08 19:22:49 UTC

What is the big issue? Re-launching? Oh, the wasted time! Oh, the hassle! Oh, the embarrassment!

Shithead.

Anyway...

In both of those configurations the spinnaker shackle is engaging the "anneau" so there's no chance of a hang-up on the gate, the gate doesn't chew up anything, there's no cable involved so you know that - up to three or four hundred pounds of towline tension - if you pull on the lanyard it's gonna work, and bridle wrap is out of the equation. You could do a lot worse - and virtually all US and Australian one pointers do. Robin and Shane Smith would still be alive if they had used either of these.

I'd use a Tost weak link for both. It's stupid to use string if you're gonna drag it.

No mechanical advantage in either !

Yes and No.

Yes, there's no mechanical advantage boost in the first one. But you can get a REALLY GOOD boost on the second if you minimize the lanyard length.

It's the same principle as the loading at the ends of a two point bridle.

1. If you pull straight back on the lanyard at 25 pounds the latch on the spinnaker shackle will feel 25 pounds.

2. If you make the lanyard ridiculously long and pull on its middle along the red "WAY TO RELEASE" arrow the latch will only feel about half of your pull (ignoring friction) - and your right shoulder will be feeling the other half.

3. If you make the lanyard long enough to form a sixty degree angle at its middle where you're pulling it (just like your two point bridle), the latch will be feeling 14 pounds (over half of your pull).

4. If you make the lanyard short enough to form "only" a 166 degree angle the latch will be feeling over FOUR TIMES what you're pulling.

5. The same was true for my original spinnaker shackle configuration - the less slop there was in the lanyard the more power you got when you swatted it.

6. Secure a ball in the middle of the lanyard to make it easier to grab the lanyard without grabbing the bridle.

Then, will you give me that ? :...

See above.

Why ?

http://www.flickr.com/photos/aerotowrelease/8313526097/


It does everything the one point spinnaker shackles do - cheaper, lighter, cleaner, better.

And...

- There's less metal to hit you in the face - although I firmly believe this is a totally imaginary issue.

- You get to keep your own weak (Bridle) link - appropriate for your glider.

- It's better to allow the towline to engage the bridle through something - like a tow ring - that slides on the bridle rather than at a fixed point at the center of the bridle. That way the halves of the bridle and their attachments are always evenly/equally loaded and the assembly is stronger. Here's what can happen when it's fixed:

Rob Kells - 1985/09

Chris made a fairly sharp right turn which caused John to lock out to the left. John was fighting to get back behind the tow vehicle. At one point he started to recover from the lock out and then felt a "bump" (hard pull on the line). The trike tumbled, the single strands of 505 leech line that went from John's shoulder straps to the three-ring broke one at a time, and presumably the shackle pulled out of the trike release at the same time the second strand of 505 gave way.

(Not that it mattered in that situation but it's the job of the weak link to blow first. That's why it's called the weak link.)

- The spinnaker shackle's spring loaded latch requires 3.3 pounds of loading/resistance to clear the gate. That figure also happens to be the precise weight of a thousand feet of two thousand pound Spectra. You WILL need two hands to dump a slack aero towline. You can adjust the internal resistance of barrel release down to whatever you want for very light one-hand slack line load.

I'm not sure to understand if you are agree or not with the "Tracy"...

In English "screw you" is a milder way of saying "fuck you". Tends to stand in for the more correct expression after your memory of your previous exchanges with the Tracy have dimmed a bit too much.

Let me walk you through that statement of his so you understand some of my sentiments on him, aerotowing, and tandem.

...there must be a bunch of small not-for-profit sailplane clubs that teach aerotowing who can't afford a two-place glider. It would seem that you are saying that, whether in hang gliding or sailplanes, all the clubs and schools that have two-place gliders use them just so they can gouge students rather than trying to provide good aerotow training.

1. Someone really solid in conventional fixed wing aircraft could probably hop in a solo trainer sailplane, get towed up, and do just fine.

2. Other than that, I can't think of any way to learn to fly a sailplane other than towing it up to altitude and playing around. You can't take low skims at a training hill and the scooter tow model sounds like an extraordinarily bad idea. So for that, tandem training is pretty much mandatory.

3. Many hang glider pilots - damn near all of them in the first fifteen years or so (myself amongst them) - have proven that somebody halfway competent in free flight can hop on any kind of tow - boat, winch, static, platform, aero - and do OK with people at the other end who know what they're doing.

4. Tandem hang gliding aerotow can be a good way to train new people without all the Training Hill and Supervised Mountain Hell that just about everyone from my area went through in the early years.

5. But there's more to aerotow training than knowing which way to push the bar for any given situation.

6. And if there's any good aerotowing training in the US I haven't been able to find it. And I totally guarantee you it's nowhere within several hundred miles of Webberville, Michigan.

You can really prove the bullshit part if you can share with us the curriculum or even the urls of the sailplane clubs in your area that teach students or experienced airplane pilots to aerotow sailplanes using only solo flights.

1. I don't know sailplane regulations but I strongly suspect you can't legally solo an FAA regulated bird without prior dual time and experience.

2. As per above, hang gliders and sailplanes don't translate all that well on this issue.

3. For about a quarter century a bit prior to that exchange we in the US had been aerotowing (supposedly) under USHGA/FAA regulations with absolutely no mention of tandem training for solo qualification.

4. We're not crashing people because they haven't had sufficient tandem training. We're crashing people because of 130 pound Greenspot, Lookout, Wallaby, Quest, and Bailey Releases, clueless and helpful tug drivers, and negligent and incompetent instructors, flight park operators, and competition organizers.

5. I can only name you nine US aerotowing deaths. Seven of them occurred on instructional tandem take-offs.

6. Of the two solos one was a crop duster pilot who had recently graduated from tandem flying crappy equipment in smooth air and the other was an Advanced rated hang glider pilot with previous towing experience flying crappy equipment low into a powerful thermal at a very dangerous operation.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TUGS/message/1149
aerotow instruction was Re: Tug Rates

Tracy Tillman - 2011/02/10 20:08:32 UTC

Anybody who is truly a good pilot, in any form of aviation, knows that the knowledge, skills, and judgement you have in your head, learned from thorough instruction from a good instructor with a good curriculum, are the best pieces of equipment you can fly with. Good equipment is important, the best equipment is a well-trained brain. The ironic thing about flight training is that it is the student who avoids getting thorough instruction because they are paranoid about getting gouged is actually self-gouging a chunk of knowledge they should have out of their own brain.

This dickhead wouldn't know a truly good piloting, knowledge, skills, judgment, instruction, instructors, or equipment, or well-trained brains if any or all of the above bit him in the ass. Every minute he runs his mouth to a student costs me at least fifteen hours deprogramming time.

At our club, the minimum cost for an experienced hang glider pilot to learn and show they have the aerotowing skills needed get an aerotow rating per the regs, with two tandems to 2500 feet ($90 each) and three solo flights to 2500 feet ($20 each) is $180 + $60 = $240.

Guess who wrote "the regs" on his own initiative and shoved them down everyone's throat?

That's about the cost of a hang gliding helmet. The bullshit part is saying that cost, relative to the cost of five solo-only flights, is too expensive.

1. What was it that I missed by never having gone up on a tandem tow of any kind that made Holly Korzilius and Roy Messing so much better qualified to cope with oscillation and lockout situations?

2. What does ANY competent free flight pilot learn on a tandem that he can't be taught on the ground?

3. How much is there really to know beyond:

- stay level with and behind the tug;

- get your speed up and blow tow if you can't; and

Zack C - 2010/12/13 04:58:15 UTC

I had a very different mindset too back then and trusted the people that made my equipment. Since then I've realized (largely due to this discussion) that while I can certainly consider the advice of others, I can't trust anyone in this sport but myself (and maybe the people at Wills Wing).

- never trust anyone who sends you up with a Wallaby, Quest, Lookout, or Bailey Release or loop of 130 pound Greenspot because you don't want your fatality report written by the Tracy.

...but seems to me good to make a tandem to discover AT...

At the pilot's option, sure.

...and then use a 2 point, first of all for the lanyard on the hand...

Unless the release is a Lookout 1, 2.0, or 2.1.

Learning AT by 1 point was for all something like hazing..

Yes but...
- You're a lot better off being one point to begin with than you are two point with a primary release that doesn't work.
- If you learn to tow one point you can do two in your sleep.
- I wouldn't mind seeing a one point flight - in smooth air - required for an aerotow rating.

Learning AT by 1 point was for all something like hazing..

Fully agree.

Speaking of aerotow ratings...

I just pulled the current requirements up from USHGA.

When tandem aerotow instruction is not available, solo-only aerotow instruction may be offered as an alternative.

Translation...
- If you're:
-- training at a big Flight Park Mafia operation you are FORCED to fly and pay for tandem
-- at some little jerkwater operation you MAY be able to get your card with five solos
- But the operator isn't REQUIRED to sign your card. He can still send you off to get the rest of your "training" from his cousin in Florida.

miguel,

Still working on yours.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=22739
LINKNIFE 2 STAGE TOW RELEASE

Done.

Miller definitely ain't one of my favorite people in hang gliding but ideas for equipment are ideas for equipment. If the Nazis have better jet fighters and rockets you go with them.

Miller Stroud - 2011/08/05 04:08:36 UTC

There are several pilots in the Northwest that are attaching the release to their leg straps with success.

Donnell Hewett put the upper anchor point of his two point release on his UP Gemini's cross spars junction with "success". That didn't make it a great idea.

I presently have 5 in the field and will be getting feedback from these pilots.

And expect to find out WHAT that can't be figured out a lot faster, cheaper, safer, better on the ground? How many hundreds of thousands of flights do we need to make to determine that Bailey releases won't work under load? And what do we do about it when we confirm it? FIVE pilots in the field. Great.

If you think there's the slightest possibility that you're going to learn something by putting a release system in the air then don't put it in the air - unless your only alternative is to let something sold by a flight park go up.

You can see several launches with a 2 stage release at the following link.

You can also see:

- that with respect to the USHGA requirement that to the "pilot":

With each flight, demonstrates a method of establishing that pilot is hooked in just prior to launch.

in the Arlington, Tennessee neck of the woods "just prior" means something in excess of ten seconds; and

- the consequences of that liberal interpretation. (Damn those liberals.)

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Maybe someone who hasn't fallen out of favor with and been permanently exiled by His Imperial Majesty Jack of Org could harvest the Sacred Media and make it available to Us The Unworthy so that a little more detailed analysis can be performed.

Until such time I'm gonna assume that it's just a refinement of the arrangement he posted for the entertainment of all the Davis Show douchebags on Page 4 of:

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=592
Linknife

Here's a earlier prototype that's not as clean as the present version.

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Yeah, that one definitely needed a little work.

Marc Fink - 2011/08/05 12:36:15 UTC

I've never used a linkknife--so I don't know if the assumption is "it always works."

And, of course, after you've flown it two or three times without killing yourself you WILL know that it always works. This is how we certify EVERYTHING in hang glider towing.

Miller Stroud - 2011/08/05 12:57:16 UTC

I'm also going to make a single release version for those that choose to platform tow instead of surface launch. Most pilots are using a Mason release or a 3 string/pin and gromet combination.

Which will offer what in the way of an advantage? Yeah, the slack line performance will probably be a little better - but when was the last time you heard about a platform tower getting in trouble because of a slack line situation?

Both of these use a string or line extending forward for release. I hate strings for release.

So put barrel releases on your hips.

I always pull in a bit when releasing the top release. This dampens the shock load that is put on the lower release weaklink.

Which is what G rating and why?

No pressure is ever applied to the actual releases...

Yep, always good to keep pressure from being applied to releases. Tension too, if you can manage it.

...and only 2-5 lbs is required to cut the weaklinks.

I can dump about two hundred pounds of towline tension with a five pound pull on a barrel, about six hundred with a fifteen - and I don't hafta cut and replace anything each flight.

Al Dicken - 2011/08/05 14:41:12 UTC
British Columbia

I'm not trying to be negative, but I see a serious flaw in this release; What if you break a weak link on the upper release while flying low on a FL tow. All the towline pressure would force the lower bridle against the base tube, forcing the nose up! or maybe I'm missing something. a slight re-design might fix it.maybe both releases on the same weak link, or a combination of a linkknife and a three-loop release.

Or put a one and a half G Tost weak link with a reserve insert on the end of the towline and use sacrificial two G line in place of the weak links you're using now.

(I use a koch)

Good.

Miller Stroud - 2011/08/05 15:56:31 UTC

First of all, if the top weak link was to break prematurely it would not be a catastrophic event. My total time on the top line is usually less than fifteen seconds. Yes tension would be added to the basetube but it's not an amount that could not be over ridden by the pilot. In fact Davis Straub has written that he and others have used a single line under the basetube while surface towing a rigid. So why use a double release at all? Cause it feels better on enitial tow. I myself have released the top line prematurely causing the bottom line to exert pressure on the basetube. The result was not a pitchup of the nose. Remember pitch is not controlled by moving the control bar but is controlled by moving our body weight . We use the control bar for leverage to move that weight.

If there's no pitch-up effect as a consequence of pulling forward on the basetube then what is it that the pilot's overriding?

Roll control became very jerky due to the slack in the spoiler system. That would not be a problem on a flex and I think the "pitchup ", if there was any, would be even less on a flexwing due to the reduced rake of the control bar.

So flex wings shouldn't even bother using two stage releases and needn't pay any attention to this discussion.

As far as using a Linknife and a 3 string release in combination, that totally destroys what Iwas trying to do in the first place. "Get rid of all strings". I have bent a pin and grommit before under tow and don't want to repeat that event.

1. I thought releases all worked BETTER with bent pins. Isn't that the whole principle behind the Bailey Release?
2. Under what tension and using what for a weak link? (Good thing that was bench tested to handle the load.)
3. So how come other people are using multi-strings without bending pins?

Also both releases cannot use the same weak link as the weak link is cut upon release.
I had several goals in mind when designing this release.
1. Replace my expensive Carbon Koch release as it's getting older and is not available anymore. The aluminum one is a heavy monster.
2. Remove all strings from any form of a release.
3. Produce another 2 stage release as there are no others available
4. Produce something that has no moving or mechanical parts while providing a 2 stage planform .incorporating a time proven release.

Yeah, TIME is always what we use to prove releases systems. Nobody killed in a period of two years or more - we're good to go.

5. Localizing both release handles so that both lines can be released in one motion. Hey, It works!
Hope this helps.

It would help to see the photo but I don't think I have any real problems with this thing - relative to the Koch.

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=22308
Better mouse trap(release)?

Jim Rooney - 2010/12/16 18:47:05 UTC

Oh, I've heard the "everything we do is an experiment" line before.
The trouble is, it's not.

I've seen experimentation with towing gear more than anything else in HG.
I've not seen many go out and try to build their own sails for example. When someone does, they're very quickly "shown the light" by the community. Example... the guy that was building the PVC glider in California somewhere.
But for some reason, towing gear is exempt from this.

The difference is what we do has been done by thousands of people already. It's been tested... a lot.
What we do is free of the experimentation part.
It's still dangerous, but not at the level of building new gear is. Not even close.

That's what people fail to realize.
It's no small difference. It's a huge chasm.

Notice how I'm not saying to not do it.
Go forth and experiment. That's great... that's how we improve things.
I'm just warning you of that chasm.

A few years ago, I started refusing to tow people with home made gear.
I like the idea of improving gear, but the lack of appreciation for the world they were stepping into didn't sit with me.
For example... flying with the new gear in mid day conditions?
Are you kidding me????

Approach it for what it is... completely untested and very experimental gear which will likely fail in new and unforseen ways as it tries it's damndest to kill you... and then we can talk.

Nah, better play it safe. This is HOME MADE and thus COMPLETELY UNTESTED and VERY EXPERIMENTAL gear which will likely fail in new and UNFORSEEN ways as it tries IT'S damnedest - sorry - DAMNDEST to kill you in mid day conditions. Better just use a Bailey Release on a shoulder (with a 130 pound Greenspot backup release on the other) 'cause its been tested by thousands of people already and will only try it's damndest to kill you in old and forseen ways in mid day conditions.
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And the second:

http://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51969291410_a85100b452_o.jpg


Stuff in this thread is no longer blocked from those not logged in.

[deltaman]

Look at the green, it is a tube around the swivel, and the red rope is tight with a hole on it. Then you release as a barrel.

Another string, tight on the front side of the barrel, should allow to push too.

I observe that Wichard aren't really often well set up, without using the mechanical advantage of the rope inside the body and around the trigger as a V-bridle and with slack enough in the lanyard to neutralize the advantage..

Look, one french pilot did that in the 80' with a nail, 90mm long :

[Tad Eareckson]

Sorry to have taken so long getting back to you - I've gotten sidetracked and buried.

Look at the green, it is a tube around the swivel, and the red rope is tight with a hole on it.

Got it.

Another string, tight on the front side of the barrel, should allow to push too.

I understand what you're saying, but not how you're thinking of configuring.

I observe that Wichard aren't really often well set up, without using the mechanical advantage of the rope inside the body and around the trigger as a V-bridle and with slack enough in the lanyard to neutralize the advantage..

1. The problem of dangerously light weak links masks the problem of dangerously underpowered releases.
2. When people find something that works most of the time for an average tow they immediately drop any thought of advancement.

Look, one french pilot did that in the 80' with a nail, 90mm long...

1. Soft steel taking the full towline tension. I wonder if he load tested it.

2. At least he didn't bend the nail to conform to American standards.

3. It appears that he has a lanyard going to the barrel. If you have a lanyard going to a barrel it's a fairly simple matter to put the other end in your teeth so you can fly the glider AND release.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/aerotowrelease/8312402264/


(That one goes between a shoulder and a Bridle Link end (and only sees half the load).)

4. But the best way to do this is:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/aerotowrelease/8306152861/

[deltaman]

3. It appears that he has a lanyard going to the barrel.

that's just a rubber to keep the nail inside the barrel until you release, I think

Another string, tight on the front side of the barrel, should allow to push too.

I understand what you're saying, but not how you're thinking of configuring.

like that ? but I didn't try..

http://www.flickr.com/photos/psucvollibre/6034844589/


4 strings release
Did you write something on it ? Can you give me the link.
What about teeth after release when the lanyard leave, and snag with lanyard and the first loop ?

[Tad Eareckson]

that's just a rubber to keep the nail inside the barrel until you release, I think

I think you're probably right. I now realize that what I thought was part of a line arrangement to pull the barrel is actually the Base component of the release assembly. (And it's almost certainly nylon (high stretch - bad idea).)

like that ? but I didn't try..

Don't.

- I'm almost positive you don't have enough clearance to make it work.

- And while it's good to kick ideas around it's a lot better to start with the best technology available before you get more creative. And the spinnaker shackle - for the purpose of this discussion - is a stone tool.

Did you write something on it ?

It's all in the mousetraps document.

http://www.energykitesystems.net/Lift/hgh/TadEareckson/index.html

And there are some pretty extensive and detailed photos at:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/aerotowrelease/sets/72057594141352219/

What about teeth after release when the lanyard leave, and snag with lanyard and the first loop ?

These are all total non issues.

The tow tension - after it's been limited and split by the Bridle Link and stepped down by the Four-String's mechanical advantage, stiffness, and friction is practically undetectable by the time it gets to your teeth.

You DO need a minimum of about thirty pounds of towline tension to blow it but it's intended to be used ONLY as a lockout emergency release and in such a situation I one hundred percent guarantee you you'll have that minimum.

There's a spinoff benefit in that you can blow a slack line with just one hand coming off the basetube long enough to punch the Bridle Link with thirty pounds but my feeling is that slack lines are best dealt with by not having them. They're very dangerous and, if both planes are doing their jobs, very easily avoided.

And these things DO NOT snag. Once that Trigger Line (it's not really a lanyard - which is something you pull) starts moving there is NOTHING that's gonna stop the process.

P.S. This is Post 666. I was really hoping I'd be the one to hit that number. Thanks for the setup, Antoine.

[miguel]

Jim Rooney talking about straight pin releases:

My point is that everything has issues. Everything. Period.
Will I fly with a straight pin release? Sure.
Does it have the track record of the curved pins? No.
Does it have limitations that the curved pins don't? Yes, yes it does.
Do they matter? Depends on your situation.
Try fitting a straight pin release with anything but weaklink. (it doesn't quite fit the same) OH! Right. Just might be that we've thought of that eh?

What are the limitations of straight pin releases? Not interested in track records.
Please stay on topic and not attack or mention Jim.