http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=31717
Weak link?
Davis Straub - 2014/08/19 13:58:35 UTC
The standard and inappropriate (glider) answers are given above.
Well yeah, Davis. And the last things you wanna be getting are inappropriate answers when the very essence of the aerotow weak link...
http://ozreport.com/12.081
Weaklinks - the HGFA rules
Davis Straub - 2008/04/22 14:47:00 UTC
Pilots must use weaklinks provided by the meet organizers and in a manner approved by the meet organizers. All weaklinks will be checked and use of inappropriate weaklinks will require the pilot to go to the end of the launch line to change the weaklink.
Weaklinks will consist of a single loop of Cortland 130 lb. Greenspot braided Dacron Tolling line and should be placed at one end of a shoulder bridle.
http://www.willswing.com/articles/ArticleList.asp#AerotowRelease
Aerotow Release Attachment Points for Wills Wing Gliders
Always use an appropriate weak link with a finished length of 1.5 inches or less.
...is appropriateness.
The point of the weaklink is to make aerotowing safer for the pilots.
Besides obvious and proven total fuckin' douchebags such as yourself and Rooney, who says?
- Quote me one sentence from anywhere within conventional aviation that supports that sentiment.
- Current Regional Director / Former Towing Committee Chairman / Primary author of Safety Advisory #1 concerning the danger of the tandem glider becoming "UNATTACHED" from the tug...
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/skysailingtowing/message/4633
Weaklinks and aerotowing (ONLY)
Steve Kroop - 2005/02/10 04:50:59 UTC
To:
Davis Straub; Tow Group
Cc:
Rohan Holtkamp; Paris Williams
Subject:
Weaklinks and aerotowing (ONLY)
Davis,
Your weak link comments are dead on. I have been reading the weak link discussion in the OR with quiet amusement. Quiet, because weak links seem to be one of those hot button issues that brings out the argumentative nature of HG pilots and also invokes the "not designed here" mentality and I really did not want to get drawn into a debate. Amusement, because I find it odd that there was so much ink devoted to reinventing the wheel. Collectively I would say that there have been well over a 100,000 tows in the various US flight parks using the same strength weak link with tens of thousands of these tows being in competition. Yes I know some of these have been with strong links but only the best of the best aerotow pilots are doing this.
You are completely correct about weak links and lockouts. If I can beat the horse a little more: Weak links are there to protect the equipment not the glider pilot. Anyone who believes otherwise is setting them selves up for disaster. The pilot activating his or her releases is their way to save themselves. A perfect analogy is the circuit breaker in your home, it is there to protect the wire not what you plug into the wall socket. If anyone does not believe me they can plug their car retrieve 2-way radio into the wall socket and watch it go up in flames with the circuit breaker cumfortably remaining in the on position (I hope no one really tries this
.
A discussion of the strength of weak links is incomplete without a discussion of the tow bridal. I hear (read) strengths quoted with respect to the combined pilot and glider weight yet this is meaningless info with out knowing what bridal configuration is used and where it is placed in the bridal system. For example, a 200# weak link can allow between 200# and 800# of towline force depending on where it is placed within the various popular bridal configurations.
On the tow plane we use 1-1/2 loops (3 strands) of 130# line. The weak link is placed in the top of a V-bridal which would yield a maximum nominal towline tension of around 780#. However, due to the fact the knots (two are required since there are three strands) are not "buried" the maximum towline tension is greatly reduced. I do not know the exact tow line tension required to break this weak link but the value is somewhat moot since the weak link is not too strong so as to cause any damage to the tow plane and it is not too weak to leave the glider pilot with the towline.
Summary
Do not attempt to aerotow unless you have received proper training
Do not attend an aerotow comp if you do not have considerable experience flying a comp class glider in comp class conditions
Weak links are there to protect the equipment
Weak links do NOT prevent lockouts and no amount of weak link rules will prevent lock outs
In the event of a lock out releases are there to save the pilot
Best regards, Steve - Flytec USA
...flatly contradicts that OPINION of yours. And I never heard you say that anything in his post to you was "inappropriate".
You want the weak link to break if you come off the cart and hit the ground, for example.
Don't you tell me what *I* want, motherfucker.
- There's no more possibility of me coming off the cart and hitting the ground at a runway than there is of me:
-- coming off the ramp at McConnellsburg and hitting the rocks - less in fact
-- running off the ramp at Whitwell without my glider
- And if I DID come off the cart on a ground trajectory...
http://www.flickr.com/photos/aerotowrelease/8306300488/
...I wouldn't be waiting around for the impact and hoping for the weak link to pop soon enough to keep my lifeless body from being dragged.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/skysailingtowing/message/6726
Weaklinks
Peter Birren - 2008/10/27 23:41:49 UTC
You trying to tell me the pilot had time to release? Not a prayer.
I know about this type of accident because it happened to me, breaking 4 ribs and my larynx... and I was aerotowing using a dolly. The sh*t happened so fast there was no room for thought much less action. But I wasn't dragged because the weaklink did its job and broke immediately on impact.
http://ozreport.com/pub/images/fingerlakesaccident2.jpg
http://ozreport.com/pub/images/fingerlakesaccident3.jpg
01-001
04-200
07-300
10-307
15-413
If you're stupid enough to:
- get on a cart with a release within easy reach; AND
- blow a dolly launch; AND
- be relying on your Davis Link to keep you from getting into too much trouble
I want as much damage done to you as possible. And if you're an innocent student just doing what you've been told to then tough shit anyway. The more people who get quaded or killed with this bullshit the better our chances are of getting this bullshit cleaned up.
You also want the weak link to break if you, the hang glider pilot, get out of whack and put excessive force on the tow plane (to save the tug pilot).
- If I get out of whack it'll be because I got hit by something that temporarily or permanently overpowered my control authority. If it's:
-- temporary I'm gonna come back and I don't want no fuckin' piece of Davis Dead-On Straub mandated fishing line overruling my decision as Pilot In Command to do so.
-- permanent I'm gonna make and execute the decision to blow off and not stick around to the point of inversion...
http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=865
Tandem pilot and passenger death
Davis Straub - 2005/10/15 05:50:52 UTC
In the pre-Worlds in Forbes, NSW, Australia in the late nineties, those of us flying the Icaro 2000 Laminars got them just before the meet began after we has been in the country for a while. I had been flying a Moyes Extra Light, king posted glider.
On the first day towing the Laminar I believe I had nine tows, but maybe it was only seven. During those terrible tows I had at least three barrel rolls.
...waiting for my fuckin' piece of Davis Dead-On Straub mandated fishing line to give me the OK and do my job for me.
- I don't give any more of a flying fuck about the goddam tug driver or his safety than he gives about me or mine.
-- If he's incapable of squeezing a lever on his joystick...
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7509/15659143120_a9aae8f7bd_o.jpg
...in the timespan required for the glider to get the fifty yards sideways it needs to be in order for him to start feeling anything worth mentioning pulling his tail around then why do we care? Isn't he gonna kill himself anyway the first time he tries to land in choppy air when he'll be needing to make tenth of a second control responses?
-- How come your dear friend Jim Keen-Intellect Rooney, arguably the most gifted and brilliant tug pilot the planet has ever known, says:
http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2467
weak links
Jim Rooney - 2007/08/01 13:47:23 UTC
Whatever's going on back there, I can fix it by giving you the rope.
How come he doesn't say:
Jim Rooney - 2007/08/01 13:47:23 UTC
Whatever's going on back there doesn't really matter 'cause the standard aerotow weak link will fix it before either of us is even aware there IS a problem.
You don't want the weak link to break just because the tow rope develops a belly and then tightens up.
Sure we do, Davis...
http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24846
Is this a joke ?
Davis Straub - 2011/08/28 15:26:28 UTC
Then again, Russell Brown had us double up behind him after six breaks in a row at Zapata. We couldn't figure out why we had so many breaks so quickly. Maybe just coincidence.
We want the weak link to break six times in a row in light morning conditions with our high performance / low drag / low tow tension gliders perfectly lined up and trying to climb out normally. That's why we wait until the string of coincidences is safely behind us and resume using Davis Links that usually only blow one out of every four or five flights with nothing going wrong.
So OK, Davis. Now that you've told us all what WE ALL WANT how 'bout telling us all what kind of fishing line WE ALL should use in order to GET what WE ALL WANT? And how 'bout telling why you refuse to tell anybody...
http://ozreport.com/rules.php
2014 Big Spring Nationals Rules
2014 Big Spring Nationals at Big Spring, Texas
2.0 EQUIPMENT
Weaklinks
Pilots must use weaklinks provided by the meet organizers and in a manner approved by the meet organizers. All weaklinks will be checked and use of inappropriate weaklinks will require the pilot to go to the end of the launch line to change the weaklink.
Weaklinks should be placed at one end of a shoulder bridle. The tow forces on the weaklink will be roughly divided in half by this placement. Pilots will be shown how to tie the weaklink so that it more likely breaks at its rating breaking strength.
...what an "APPROPRIATE WEAK LINK" is as determined by you meet heads until fifteen minutes before Round One commences?
OK, Team. We've got this motherfucker right where we want him.
- He's not on his own turf so he can't delete posts and lock down threads.
- Jack can't defend him without getting his own head blown off 'cause he's set himself up with previous idiot statements and remained dead silent during the Zack Marzec postmortem discussion.
- And there's no shortage of Jack Show members in good standing who hate his guts so you'll be able to get away with being moderately nasty.
- Anything he says we can present:
-- tons of incident report and photographic proof of it being total bullshit
-- multiple quotes of him saying the precise opposite
We need to humiliate and destroy him - drive a stake through whatever he's using for a heart and decapitate him to make sure. And time is on our side. We can do it carefully and leisurely 'cause he can never effectively unpost what he's already posted.
