Skyting demolition

[Tad Eareckson]

P.S. peanuts...

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=31747
Lockout

Dennis Wood - 2014/09/08 14:29:21 UTC
Suffolk, Virginia

To Michael170: please send pictures and information of your bridle and weaklink (if any). i'm anxious to see what you use personally and consider safer than what i use. trying to learn from all the experts

I notice that when you asked about michael's weak link you DIDN'T ask ANYTHING about either his glider model and size or flying weight. That much tells me EVERYTHING I needed to know about you - as if I didn't already know everything I needed to know about you prior to our first contact near five and a half years ago.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=31747
Lockout

AndRand - 2014/09/08 17:55:03 UTC

here you have a link to report of PKBWL, Polish NTSB (in Polish)
https://www.mir.gov.pl/Transport/Transport_lotniczy/PKBWL/Rejestr_zdarzen/Documents/2011_0420_RK.pdf

Whoa! Looking at the documentation, detail, effort and comparing it to the crap we got from USHGA on the Zack Marzec fatality it appears to me that you guys care about your guys several thousands of times as much as we care about our guys.

The reasons were as mentioned:
- too steep ascend ("almost vertical") right from the start off the trolley

Steeper than?:

10-03323
http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2928/14397296584_1d0e5e389b_o.png

- too thin (used previously in double release) and worn out pilot's bridle - in document, bridle durability was estimated as: 350kg (5mm rope)*(50+10)% (knots+wear)= ~<140kg

Make it 310 pounds.

glider: Spectrum 144

56 pounds, min/max hook-in - 120/210 - max certified - 266.
Weak link - 1.17 Gs.

I couldn't figure out if we know actual hook-in/flying weight from the report. See if And can tell us.

Foto 3 shows a three-string directly engaging a designated weak link loop - which is a monumentally bad idea. (Think Shane Smith.) See if we know what the target strength was.

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=31052
Poll on weaklinks

Jim Rooney - 2013/03/05 21:40:02 UTC

I'm not saying that you've claimed that a stronger weaklink allows for a greater AOA... I'm telling you that it does.
You know this.
I'll spell it out anyway...
Increases in AOA increase the load factor... push it beyond what the weaklink can stand and *POP*, you're off tow.
Increase the load factor that the weaklink can withstand and you increase the achievable AOA.

This ain't truck towing. There is no pressure limiting mechanism. Push out and you load the line. Push out hard and you'll break the weaklink... that's the whole idea.

You want to break off the towline? Push out... push out hard... it will break.
As others have pointed out, they've used this fact intentionally to get off tow. It works.

You want MORE.
I want you to have less.
This is the fundamental disagreement.
You're afraid of breaking off with a high AOA? Good... tow with a WEAKER weaklink... you won't be able to achieve a high AOA. Problem solved.

I'm sorry that you don't like that the tug pilot has the last word... but tough titties.
Don't like it?
Don't ask me to tow you.

Go troll somewhere else buddy.
I'm over this.

Bacon saver was much too strong. 0.04 Gs heavier than a Rooney Link on a two hundred pound two point glider.

But then again...

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=31717
Weak link?

Davis Straub - 2014/08/20 19:48:26 UTC

Many of us are now using 200 lb test line from Cortland.

Davis studiously avoids mentioning both flying weight and glider capacity when he tells us that many of US are now using 200 pound test line from Cortland and he's never ONCE in his entire miserable existence acknowledged that weak link strength should scale with either flying weight or glider capacity and he's been forcing gliders up on one-size-fits-all 130 for years. So we've got the motherfucker.

Keep the heat on.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=31747
Lockout

Dave Hopkins - 2014/09/08 21:44:28 UTC

It is also possible that a lock out will happen so fast you will not have time to release.

Bull fucking shit. I've been in a couple of aerotow lockouts - on Rooney Links - faster / more violent than anything you can find on YouTube. Shit like:

Bill Bryden - 2000/02

Dennis Pagen informed me several years ago about an aerotow lockout that he experienced. One moment he was correcting a bit of alignment with the tug and the next moment he was nearly upside down. He was stunned at the rapidity. I have heard similar stories from two other aerotow pilots.

Unless you're one of those shitheads who puts his release actuator within easy reach you can beat the weak link any time (assuming it's not one that goes totally at random). You might not have the altitude to survive the recovery but you've got time to release.

Such as the case with me . The which operator released tension...

Tension? You had a which operator who released TENSION?

...and the soft spring ground only knocked me out for a few seconds.

You got knocked unconscious for several seconds by recoil in the course of a normal surface tow? Great job on equipment selection there, Dave. What were you using? A panic snap at the apex of a twenty foot long three eighths inch bungee bridle?

Only fly on a system that has a dedicated winch operator and they understand how to release pressure instantly!

Idiot.

P.S. If the fuckin' driver has the time to react you've got even more time to react. What you're very obviously saying is no way in hell do you have the equipment to permit you to react - to allow you to do your own fuckin' job / act like a goddam PILOT.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=31747
Lockout

Brian Scharp - 2014/09/09 00:13:00 UTC

Pushing out real hard only takes an instant, but there'd likely be hell to pay when it was over.

Dave Hopkins - 2014/09/09 01:31:56 UTC

yeah ,if close to the ground it is more likely to be fatal .

No shit. Sane people who pull in and try to level the glider get killed. What are we expecting to happen with some blight on the gene pool who does the precise opposite?

Have those advocating it tried it? How did it work out?

Why is anyone paying the slightest attention to the Rooney / Voight caliber shitheads advocating this lunatic crap? Why do they even have ratings?

[Steve Davy]

You got knocked unconscious for several seconds by recoil in the course of a normal surface tow? Great job on equipment selection there, Dave. What were you using? A panic snap at the apex of a twenty foot long three eighths inch bungee bridle?

I think what Dave is saying is that he literally hit the ground.

[Tad Eareckson]

Yeah, obviously. Got hung up on the word "spring" and the other meaning. Wonder how many of these I can get away with using sickness as an excuse.

So good, we now have a concussion on the world's leading crumple zone expert resulting from the inconvenience of his driver making a good decision in the interest of his safety - the equivalent of a bacon saver kicking in.

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=31747
Lockout

michael170 - 2014/09/09 06:08:56 UTC

Dennis Wood - 2014/09/08 14:29:21 UTC

To Michael170: please send pictures and information of your bridle and weaklink (if any).

Where are you asking me to send pictures and information of my bridle and weak link?

We've got his residence down to Suffolk, Virginia, but sending to Kitty Hawk's shoddy Currituck operation would get it to him.

i'm anxious to see what you use personally and consider safer than what i use.

I don't know what you use therefore I cannot make accurate considerations as to safety issues.

Let him keep using the cheap bent pin crap he's been using. There's always hope.

trying to learn from all the experts

Try learning when to use the shift key, and see how that works out.

Something of a pain if one hasn't yet evolved opposable thumbs.

Nic Welbourn - 2014/09/09 06:31:28 UTC

Wow. Someone else could try learning some kindness and humility!

That miserable goddam piece o' shit just got WAY more kindness and humility than he's ever merited. And ditto about the shift key. If one can't write at a second grade proficiency level one has no fuckin' business flying hang gliders.

michael170 - 2014/09/09 06:40:53 UTC

Many thanks for the link, AndRand. I've copied and pasted it into Google translate and posted it below.

I'm not certain why there is some redundancy but I have left it in place.

I'm not gonna paste the thing or comment now other than to say that the translation seems to be pretty damn good and the glider whipstalled - rather than tailslid - in.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=31747
Lockout

Red Howard - 2014/09/09 13:18:47 UTC

Where are you asking me to send pictures and information of my bridle and weak link?

Michael170,

This web site forum would be one good place to get the word out.

Really?

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=11497
Aerotow release options?

John Glime - 2009/04/13 18:09:32 UTC
Salt Lake City

Not being constructive? There is one person who has put more thought and time into releases than anyone. That person is Tad. He explains the pros and cons to every release out there. I gave you the link to more release information than the average person could ever digest, and I didn't get a thank you. Just you bitching that we aren't being constructive. What more could you want? He has created something that is a solution, but no one is using it... apparently you aren't interested either. So what gives??? What do you want us to tell you? Your concerns echo Tad's concerns, so why not use his system? Every other system out there has known flaws.

I handed you that technology on a silver platter near five and a half years ago and what did you assholes do beyond pissing all over it and me while continuing to keep the families and friends of your ex Rooney Linking, pin bending, easy reaching buddies in your prayers. Fuck that site.

I would like to see your pictures and information.

- Why? What would you start doing if you saw them?

- Quote me something from michael in which he indicates he has anything to take pictures of.

- How 'bout leaning on idiot fucking peanuts for pictures - or at least a description - of what he's using? He's the only one claiming to have equipment and he obviously thinks its safety leaves a good bit to be desired.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=31747
Lockout

Brian Scharp - 2014/09/09 16:52:54 UTC

Maybe it was a typo and meant to say hardly pushing out. It still seems reckless as a release option.

It's not a release option. It's just more Voight/Rooney bullshit attempting to justify the Sacred Fishing Line.

Shouldn't you be pulling in at the time of release?

Nobody actually needs to be told that when the shit actually hits the fan.

michael170 - 2014/09/10 05:19:02



The metal ring on the left side of the photo is included for illustration purposes as I do not have a tow ring handy.

Also a weak link is not shown, but if it floats your boat I can post a photo of a double loop of 205 leech line that would be installed on the towline leader and engaging the tow ring.

The leechline's gonna get dragged and degraded. Put a loop of 250 from Stuart Caruk between the bridle and release.

OK, Red. michael's gotten the word out on your great web forum. Now tell me what's gonna happen.

[<BS>]

It's not a release option.

Suggested release option.

Brian Scharp - 2014/09/09 16:52:54 UTC

Shouldn't you be pulling in at the time of release?

Nobody actually needs to be told that when the shit actually hits the fan.

It's a question directed at the safety of that suggested option even in the best of circumstances. It's an ironic suggestion coming from someone who seems to have an aversion to pushing out even when needed to coordinate turns. So where's your confidence coming from, did I miss a poll?

[Tad Eareckson]

I know what you're doing/saying. I'm just still smoldering from back at:

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=14230
pro tow set-up

Should've told Jack he was a lying, incompetent, two faced piece of shit fostering a total douchebag colony stocked with crud like Ryan, Rooney, Rodie, peanuts - the way I did the baggers, Davis, Houston, Bob, Peter, Rocky Mountain - instead of pulling punches in a pointless effort to keep my line from being cut.

As for anyone who's even thinking about that suggestion/option... GO FOR IT. Hang gliding is buckling under the weight of its total morons as things are and I'm totally nuts about snuff videos.