instructors and other qualified pilot fiends

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=990
Interesting article involving Davis Straub

wannahg - 2007/01/02 01:52:14 UTC

http://www.fai.org/hang_gliding/node/363

Tom Sterner (tizeagle) - 2007/01/02 04:37:31 UTC
Aurora, Colorado

Davis has spent so much time on his ego. I believe that he and his Oz Report give hang gliding a bad rep. There is a big list of politics that Davis has corrupted in the name of progress of the sport. Davis's problem is he cares more about himself then the sport HG.

When any of you read his articals he only writes on his opinions and with his benefit in mind.
-
Falcon 2 195, Formula 154
Harness, High Energy, Rotor Kick Ass
http://www.hanggliding.org/wiki/User:Tomsterner

Tom Sterner - 85750 - H2 - 2007/06/03 - David Broyles - FL ST FSL - Exp: 2009/04/30

HuttoRhino - 2007/01/02 13:25:12 UTC
Hutto, Texas

I agree with Tiz. Davis has spent a lot of time HG- with no denial of that. It is the ego trip that makes everyone suffer and gives HG/PG a bad wrap with others just because he is "recognized".

It is people like this that make anything bad...

naturewoo - 2007/01/02 14:46:39 UTC
Kitty Hawk

davis straub and the oz report are exactly why our sport suffers so much...self importance is the biggest illusion in life, and selfishness creates all the worlds problems...the desire to be perceived as "clever" usually results in a glimpse into the true character of a person, and the sport of hangt gliding is chock full of people who have too high an opinion of us as a group. The old timers club should give way to new energy, and egotisctical mr cant be wrongs should be given the amount of credence he deserves, which is little if any...why do assholes become attracted to positions of influence? Meet director, for instance? What is wrong with anonymity?

T.B. - 2007/01/03 03:47:32 UTC

Well i can only reply to this topic from personal experiance....

Me too.

Davis is without a doubt self centerd...When Joe (second owner of Hang Glide Chicago) was first startig out last year Davis told him that he wanted a cut out of his profits, or he will not report his operation as a good place to fly....Mutch more than this Joe told him NO and now Davis is trying to do his best to keep him from operating....
You Suck Davis

Needs a comma after the second word. Unless you're addressing Jim Keen-Intellect Rooney. And you wouldn't need to make that statement if you were. I don't think there's anyone for whom that's not totally fuckin' obvious.

As we all know ,there is not a lot of money to be made in this sport (Very little if any)...and for Davis to exploit flight parks trying to just get started deprives a lot of people. People who would like to learn and pilots. Most of us have jobs just to support our selfes and our passions Davis wants to Crap on our passions to put more money in his pockets.

Jason Boehm - 2007/01/03 04:30:17 UTC

I joined the OZ report recently, and have come to your same conclusions
I just posted that link and text in there as well, we'll see how long its up for

Bart Doets - 2007/01/03 14:47:30 UTC
Hilversum, Netherlands

I too think Davis has a big ego.
So what? I personally know some people who have smaller egos but are much more of a nuisance.

To whom?

The size of an ego does not say a lot about wether somebody is worthwhile.

I strongly disagree.

I think hanggliding owes Davis;

Me too. But the extreme opposite of what you mean by that.

for me, I can be more aware of hanggliding everyday thanks to him.

You could be fifty times more aware of hang gliding every day thanks to him and still be a waste of space.

They say Hitler was a very sociable fellow. Yet he is most known by his "statemanship".
I don't know Davis personally, but I know him most by the OzReport; and I'm glad it's there.

Get fucked.

Do I smell some envy here?

No, you smell some well deserved contempt.

Jim Gaar - 2007/01/03 15:27:19 UTC

Another opinion...

Yeah, you've got huge reserves of them up your ass. Go ahead and pull another one out.

He and his wife were very gracious. He overpaid, set a distance record, returned the next year and was going to the next but we were without a tug and he wrote well about us even though we are a very small operation.

Why am I not surprised?

I find him quite supportive of the sport as a whole and to accuse him of trying to blackmail a park owner out of profits for a good article seems quite laughable.

Yeah, I'm sure he just made that up out of spite.

We support him through the regular $20 annual payment to The Oz Report and did so well before he asked if he could stop in to fly as he crossed the US from site-to- site.

Just like the Ebola virus in West Africa.

wannahg - 2007/01/03 17:14:27 UTC

Great spin there When you have to bring up how Hitler was sociable in an effort to defend Davis, it just makes Davis look real bad.

I think comparing Davis to Hitler makes Hitler look bad.

wannahg - 2007/01/03 17:16:23 UTC

Re: Another opinion...

Sounds like a juicy story. Who's right?

Well, seeing as how Davis has never posted a denial... Which is what *I* do on the scores of occasions when Jack, Davis, Bob Show douchebags post shit about me.

Bart Doets - 2007/01/03 18:11:13 UTC

By the way, the article you refer to is almost a year old. If you do not know the history, all you have to do is read the OzReport to catch up... anyway, recent stuff between Davis and CIVL is far more interesting...

wannahg - 2007/01/03 18:18:17 UTC

Dont care to read the oz report, its the world viewed thru Davis glasses, and that is far too warped for me to handle. His style of reporting, if you can call it that, make the supermarket tabloids look like journalistic gold

Bart Doets - 2007/01/03 18:26:23 UTC

So why bother stir the pot about him?
There are lots of people I think are assholes but I would not waste time on them.
Still, there's that smell...

I'll happily waste time on any asshole in this sport. By not doing that you guarantee they'll take total control of it. And that's the situation we have now.

wannahg - 2007/01/03 18:46:26 UTC

You should be asking Davis that question, he stirs the pot on everyone no matter what the consequences. I guess he has bought into the howard stern system of marketing. Bad publicity is good publicity if it brings you cash, to hell with everyone else.

T.B. - 2007/01/03 22:23:02 UTC

Blindrodie...Just to get something clear
This is not just an accusation, this is a fact ....I encourage you to call Joe Yobbka and ask him yourself ......you can find his number at http://www.hangglidechicago.com

Marco Weber - 2007/01/04 14:45:16 UTC
Henson Gap

Once in a while he just has to stir up the pot to make his self interesting. It's just the same of people reading or posting in his forum. Just check out the statistics. Why not start a stink here and then.
It just makes him feel better and get's his hits up. I hardly see any top HG pilots post there. It doesn't take much to figure him out.
I, in general, think he's doing alot of damage to the HG community.
I used to post there but hey oh well he had to start it then too and after it got out of control he just deleted half of my posts because I guess they just didn't fit in his "no free speech for everyone but me zone".

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=27494
The exciting bits

Steve Davy - 2012/04/27 01:55:17 UTC

Why did you delete my post?

Davis Straub - 2012/04/27 02:42:02 UTC

Tad's name.

I know some pilots from europe or south america who just stopped posting there. They, including me, just couldn't take his editorial (not quiet jurnalistic) views anymore.

Send 'em to Kite Strings.

But what ever I just ignore his arrogance and his and his brown nosers rude personality. I don't fly for living. I have a day job and don't need to push myself in to the center of attention with pulling crap on people.

Jim Gaar - 2007/01/04 14:55:06 UTC

Hey TB.

This is none of my concern.

Since you're another scummy sociopath who sucks Davis and doesn't give a flying fuck about anybody but himself.

I said the accusation was "laughable", not untrue.

Of course not. No reasonable person would've interpreted it that way.

Jack Axaopoulos - 2007/01/04 17:43:27 UTC

This site will be a free speach zone...

Yeah, I can tell what a big fan of free speech you are by your spelling of it.

...but the same kind that exists in movie theatre or a court room.

Which can mean anything you want it to.

I will lock down threads that turn into flame wars.

If you and/or your stupid sycophants are getting their asses kicked.

As long as we keep it civil, people are even free to talk crap about me

Come to Kite Strings. As long as it's true you can talk as much crap about that piece of shit as you want with as much incivility as he deserves.

This site exists to promote the sport of HG and for HG pilots.

How are you gonna do both? The sport of hang gliding with its hang checks, Aussie Methodists, spot no steppers, bent pin releases within easy reach, Rooney Link towing operation safety increasers, tow mast breakaway protectors is a death trap. You promote it you're just gonna mangle and kill participants at a totally unsustainable rate.

If we keep that in mind, and put our best foot forward...

Your best foot is gangrenous and in desperate need of amputation.

...ill never need to shut down any threads

And you can just amuse yourself with shutting down the threads you feel like shutting down.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=990
Interesting article involving Davis Straub

Doug Koch - 2007/01/04 18:51:53 UTC
Las Vegas

Personally I like Straub's contribution to hang gliding, both his "man-on--the-scene" reporting about comps and flying in general, and his muckraking journalism.

- Personally... Fuck you.
- Davis IS the muck.

The pot needs stirred once in a while...

What the fuck does that mean? Give me an example of Davis stirring a pot and tell me what he's trying to accomplish by doing it.

If ya can't stand the heat...

Delete the posts, lock down the threads, ban the people who are kicking your lying sleazy ass...

Hank - 2007/01/05 12:40:19 UTC
Italian Alps-www.lesrochers.com

I don't like to pass judgement on anyone until I have met them and know them.

I don't need to meet anyone to know him and pass judgment. I'm fine - much better in fact - with seeing what the motherfucker has committed to print.

Doing otherwise can more often than not put you in the wrong when you least expect it.

No worries here.

I don't know Davis and haven't really got a clue what kind of person he is, I certainly will not let myself create an overall profile of someone just by a few threads in a forum - HE might be a real ars hole as some people put it or he might be one of the nicest guys I would have ever met- Who knows for sure.

Shut up, you haven't done your homework and you don't know what you're talking about.

One thing is for sure nice or bad is that he has used his resources and talent to create the Oz-report, without which this Org would not have been created.

What a tragedy that would've been.

I bet that all of those people who are not happy with his style of communication...

This isn't about a STYLE of communication. This is about character, honesty, decency, and a bunch of other positive attributes of which he's totally devoid.

...are the ones who visit his web site the most often.

Your point being? If there's a serious cancer issue you keep a close watch on things.

I thank Davis for creating the Oz-Report and creating a way for me to get in touch and read about what is happening around the globe vs. a vie Hang gliding.

I'm so happy that you're so happy seeing what Davis allows you to see.

I take whatever information out of the Oz-report that I find useful.

I find tons of it EXTREMELY useful - particularly the stuff that isn't being said and the people we're not hearing from.

This does not mean that I have to take all the information to heart. If that was the case one would have to write a different report for every profile that is registered.

What?

I also acknowledge the people who feel the need to criticize.

Fuck the people who know Davis and don't feel - and act on - the need to criticize.

No one is made to click on the Oz-report web site...

And many people no longer even have that option.

...everyone has the right to have their say about what they feel about what they have found in the Oz-report...

Where and how people are permitted to say it, however, tend to be huge problems.

...that is the reason I like to click on the link to the Oz-report.

Knock yourself out.

Happy reading

Who said anything about "happy"?

wannahg - 2007/01/05 16:36:16 UTC

This is a good way of putting it. Some people actually enjoy grocery store tabloids, and some dont. Put me in the "dont" column. I dont like reading tainted/slanted material. Has nothing to do with liking or disliking Davis as a person...

Has everything to do with it.

I dont know him.

Yeah ya do.

But I know I dont like his writing style. Its too tabloid like.

A lot more to it than that.

Hank - 2007/01/05 19:13:48 UTC

I find it difficult to believe that you are tainting and slandering everyone that has written a post on the forum.

I missed that part.

I have found many posts on the forum very useful and have also managed to find old acquaintances from the early days.

Have you checked it out lately?

A forum is made up of the sum of all the parts not just one part only as you are I think suggesting. I am talking and was referring to the forum not just Davis.
Happy flying

It's just Davis who controls what is and isn't being said.

wannahg - 2007/01/05 19:19:16 UTC

Fair enough, im only talking about the OzReport, specifically the parts Davis writes.
I stopped reading it because his personal bias's and agenda's show thru too much. Davis is all about Davis, to hell with the flying community. For example, putting Fort Funston at risk so he can play newsman and break a story was over the line. That was the last straw for me.

Graeme Henderson (flyingthroughrock) - 2007/01/06 23:06:31 UTC
Tara, Queensland

Davis

I haven't met Davis, but I like what he is doing.
I like the Oz report, I like it's layout and the eclectic material it gives me access to. I love the humour. I love the global aspect to it.
I guess the fact that Davis is prepared to stir things up a bit is attractive to me, at a time when hang gliding is on the decline in popularity I don't think anything is sacred. We need to rip the whole thing up and start again or we will lose something that mankind has dreamed of forever. Davis is a God send from this point of view, he is holding up a mirror to us, and I realise that he gets to tilt it his way, but it is his mirror.
You can not blame Davis for any problems at Fort Funston, the freedom of the press is paramount. Davis is not on OUR side, in a great battle with the ground huggers. Davis is not the sports Spin Doctor, if the truth is a problem then you have problems. Certainly Davis is not read by everyone anyway, so if Funston is closed down then you will have to look for some one else to blame. Who has been running the place in such a way that a true story could get it closed.
Davis to me seems to be his own man, and I like that, he is pushing his barrow, that seem s fair to me. Anyone who disagrees with Davis can always push their own barrow, they can do a better job. I do not see anything to say that Davis does not care about hang gliding, I see the opposite, I see a man who is putting everything into hang gliding, a man who seems to be prepared to fight for the dream, and who dosen't care whose toes he stands on.

Or who he helps get killed.

Hang gliding is sick, it is ill, it has lost it's way and all those people who have been in the administration of the sport for the last twenty years need to be held accountable for the fact that the popularity of this pursuit has been decaying. Davis appears to be one of the few people prepared to stand up and speak his mind. We need more people like Davis. We need a revolution here, we need people who will stand up and be counted, people who are prepared to be wrong. So please, stop playing the man, play the ball, this sport has huge problems, and I don't think that Davis is to blame.

The guy's scum. Fuck anybody who thinks and says otherwise.

wannahg - 2007/01/07 17:30:39 UTC

Everyone has an opinion, but the following from Davis himself, sealed his fate with me. This from his own oz report.

Davis Straub:My position on objectivity
Davis Straub: I'm not in favor of it.

If you want to read stuff from a man who admits this, is biased and has agendas, thats your right and choice. I prefer to support people who at least try to be objective, fair, rational, logical, and, balanced.

Bart Doets - 2007/01/07 18:10:11 UTC

Hm... any journalist who pretends to be objetctive should be read with caution. Nobody can write about anything in depth, without taking sides. So give me any journalist who admits he does. It's impossible to delve into any subject without having a point of view.
Of course, I exprect the same journalist to show me all sides to the story, but I would be suspicious if he pretended to be objective.

Rubbish.

Jack Axaopoulos - 2007/01/07 18:20:36 UTC

Wow, thats quite the admission from Davis.

I see it this way. There are journalists who have a point of view that dont give a rats ass about being objective, and there are journalists who have a point of view and try to be, and succeed at being objective, or at least come close, regardless of their personal point of view.

I think society is taking a step in the wrong direction when it throws in the towel for objectivity simply because it acknowledges that everyone has a point of view and personal biases. This is no excuse to not strive for objectivity.

Davis doesnt even seem to try, and is on my personal "logically challenged" list of people, so im not a big fan either and dont bother reading his stuff, it causes me too many eye rolls

Jack Axaopoulos - 2007/01/07 18:21:25 UTC

I would say any journalist who doesnt even try to be objective, shouldnt be read at all.

- So Davis is a "journalist"?
- I'd say he should be read and quoted extensively until he can be discredited to the extent that he's no longer a threat.

Doug Koch - 2007/01/07 18:50:06 UTC

Davis's quoted statement. "Objectivity - I'm Not For It", should be looked at in light of his entire article:

http://ozreport.com/10.264.6

Davis explains his position quite clearly - he does not make a claim to be an "objective" style reporter, rather an "opinion" style reporter.

In other words, NOT a reporter.

Just because he chooses this style doesn't make his reporting worth less.
In fact, he makes a fairly persuasive argument that it is more honest than reporters who claim objectivity.

Different Strokes...

YOU take him.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=990
Interesting article involving Davis Straub

naturewoo - 2007/01/07 19:07:47 UTC

the guys who have been at the helm are indeed responsible partly for our sports problems, but lets not forget all the arrogant elitist types who also share a huge burden...the people who dont act like ambassadors to new people, but instead they want only the beautiful and "in" people to rub elbows with...all those name dropping wanna be's who write articles for the magazine and include huge pictures of themselves not flying...those are the ones who construct the barriers that keep the circles so small and ego centered...davis is probably at least partly guilty of that i suppose...i recall an incident where a group of local pilots were telling a new guy that he shouldnt think he was really good at landing because all he flew was a pulse...and he probably would blow his spots big time if he was flying a blade wing...and i remember guys who tried to make a rule back in the early 90's where in ordxer to earn your hang four, you had to do your spots in a high performance wing...these are the people who blew it for us all...

How 'bout some names?

wannahg - 2007/01/07 20:00:45 UTC

I does make it worth less to people who prefer writers that strive to be objective.
Different strokes is right.

Like I said earlier, some people actually enjoy reading the "opinion" based tabloids, I dont. Im more into Scientific America, than the National Inquirer.

Marco Weber - 2007/01/07 21:52:33 UTC

reporter?
he want's to and always point's out to be an editor

Doug Koch - 2007/01/07 23:25:49 UTC

Perhaps Davis prefers the high-falutin' term "journalist", but I would venture that he would agree that he in fact wears two hats: Editor of the Oz Report and Reporter.

Anyway, i didn't really intend to get into the position of Davis's Apologist. I just maintained that I enjoy his work. Some folks do, some folks don't.

BTW, I would like to point out that I have never even read the National Enquirer and used to have a subscription to Scientific American.

Did you read enough of it to see just how well what Davis writes lines up with reality?

Graeme Henderson - 2007/01/08 00:10:43 UTC

If Davis was into censorship I would worry, I see him allow comments that disagree with him in the forums on the oz report, he seems to encourage debate, one could say that he likes to create debate.

Marco Weber - 2007/01/04 14:45:16 UTC

I used to post there but hey oh well he had to start it then too and after it got out of control he just deleted half of my posts because I guess they just didn't fit in his "no free speech for everyone but me zone".

That's not censorship?

AT LEAST three people on Kite Strings have had posts deleted, six have had topics they were winning locked down, and Yours Truly, Warren, Al Hernandez, and Bob have been banned. (I've banned Bob here as well but for very different and extremely excellent reasons - but I still quote and respond to the motherfucker here.)

And how 'bout THIS:

http://www.hanggliding.org/wiki/HG_ORG_Mission_Statement
HG ORG Mission Statement - Hang Gliding Wiki

HangGliding.Org Rules and Policies

No posts or links about Bob K, Scott C Wise, Tad Eareckson and related people, or their material. ALL SUCH POSTS WILL BE IMMEDIATELY DELETED. These people are poison to this sport and are permanently banned from this site in every possible way imaginable.

How much more grotesque can one get with censorship? If you've got a problem with censorship I sure don't hear you making much of a stink about it.

Davis also seems to like eating sacred cow...

Fer sure. He's absolute death on bent pin releases within easy reach, long thin wrap proof bridles, standard aerotow weak links, the Aussie Method...

...something I like as well.

Yeah, you're always in the thick of things whenever there's a lockout, Davis Link, unhooked launch fatality.

The great thing about debating is that there is a place for people who are wrong, that is a requirement of finding a solution.

This is aviation, it ain't all that complicated, the only good place for people who are wrong is six feet under, we've had the solutions for decades, and we need to eliminate scum like Davis from preventing their implementations.

Now you may not like Davis on one issue, or many ,or at all, but I don't think that it is honourable to attack him here, attack him on the oz report forums if you must attack him.

- Since when did we start worrying about...

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=39347
Please explain yourself without deleting me

Cragin Shelton - 2014/09/28 15:08:33 UTC

Tad is not one of my favorite people. A bit of Google effort will demonstrate that I am most definitely not one of his favorite people. Nonetheless, I think that the OP by Op Op was an inappropriate joke aimed at an individual by name who cannot defend himself here, or even see the joke. It was unkind and unnecessary.

Therefore, I think Davis was correct to lock the thread, In fact, I'd support deleting the thread as an improper snide attack.

Davis Straub - 2014/09/28 15:15:40 UTC

I locked the thread because it was going no where and had descended into Tad territory.

...that flavor of fairness?

- Attack the motherfucker anywhere you feel like it.

- What's stopping him from responding on The Jack Show?

If he censors you then you may have a complaint.

You're a pretty slow learner, aren't you?

Now why are there fewer hang glider pilots these days?

Total fucking idiots...

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=22176
Paragliding Collapses

Jim Rooney - 2011/06/12 13:57:58 UTC

Most common HG injury... spiral fracture of the humerus.

...incessantly practicing for landing in narrow dry riverbeds with large rocks strewn all over the place.

...is it important? These two questions need to be asked, and a few sacred cows need to be slaughtered, well they are not really sacred, some people just think they are.

- Name them.
- Tell us what Davis is doing about them - other than perpetuating them.

Many years ago they stopped acknowledging 'Duration' records, it became pointless, like how long can you stand in a phone box. I am starting to think that the same needs to apply to open distance XC. It is now a duration event in it's self, there was a point in the early days but now it's becoming banal.

Ya think? You really believe it's possible for people to enjoy just thermalling around the airport for a couple hours, roll in next to their cars, not practice for landing in narrow dry riverbeds with large rocks strewn all over the place?

Flying used to be about the pursuit of flight...

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24846
Is this a joke ?

Jim Rooney - 2011/08/28 19:39:17 UTC

Weak links break for all kinds of reasons.
Some obvious, some not.

The general consensus is the age old adage... "err on the side of caution".

The frustration of a weaklink break is just that, frustration.
And it can be very frustrating for sure. Especially on a good day, which they tend to be. It seems to be a Murphy favorite. You'll be in a long tug line on a stellar day just itching to fly. The stars are all lining up when *bam*, out of nowhere your trip to happy XC land goes up in a flash. Now you've got to hike it all the way back to the back of the line and wait as the "perfect" window drifts on by.

I get it.
It can be a pisser.

But the "other side"... the not cautions one... is not one of frustration, it's one of very real danger.
Better to be frustrated than in a hospital, or worse.
No exaggeration... this is the fire that the "other side" is made of. Best not to play with it.

...the sport seems to be taking over from the pleasure of flying. Idealy the tasks should be designed so that novice and intermediate pilots improve their flying skills, the sport must focus on getting new pilots into the air and encoraging them to keep flying by helping them become independant pilots.

Fer sure. And what better way to accomplish that than spot landing contests.

And you should be an H2/ Novice pilot before you can be charged to fly tandem...

Fuck tandems.

I really think tandems are a huge problem for the sport and they should be reigned right in.

Eliminate them.

So can we get over Davis...

If he breaks his fuckin' neck...


http://ozreport.com/pub/images/fingerlakesaccident2.jpg
http://ozreport.com/pub/images/fingerlakesaccident3.jpg


...good enough to be unable to breathe on his own.

...he is doing his best...

Definitely.

...and I can read about him anytime I want on the oz report, or is he paying you to advertise for him on this site?

This is exactly the kind of advertising he needs. And I'm more than happy to dig stuff like this up from the archives and breathe new life into it.

I wouldn't put it passed him, and let's get on with sorting out what is wrong with the sport.

Scum like Davis and his defenders and sycophants.

[miguel]

Marco Weber - 2007/01/04 14:45:16 UTC

I used to post there but hey oh well he had to start it then too and after it got out of control he just deleted half of my posts because I guess they just didn't fit in his "no free speech for everyone but me zone".

Tad Eareckson - 2014/10/16 02:16:33 UTC

That's not censorship?

AT LEAST three people on 'Kite Strings' have had posts deleted, six have had topics they were winning locked down, and Yours Truly, Warren, Al Hernandez, and Bob have been banned. (I've banned Bob here as well but for very different and extremely excellent reasons - but I still quote and respond to the motherfucker here.)

?????

[Tad Eareckson]

If those question marks mean what I think they do I meant people FROM Kite Strings - registered members.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=990
Interesting article involving Davis Straub

Jack Axaopoulos - 2007/01/08 00:28:50 UTC

I started a forum just about growing the sport of HG
http://www.hanggliding.org/viewforum.php?f=19

Failing pretty miserably, aren't you? Why do you think that is?
Zack and I started one about fixing it. Until that happens this sport doesn't deserve any more victims.

This website is my contribution and I will continue to improve it.

Just like Davis is improving his.

I dont particularly care about the Davis talk. Some people like him, some dont, there are far more interesting things to talk about than Davis like FLYING.

And make sure you don't talk about crashing. We don't want the kids we're trying to pull into the sport understanding that...

http://www.dailyunion.com/news/article_3186ac10-4975-11e4-ad71-001a4bcf6878.html
Cold Spring hang-gliding crash claims Minnesotan - Daily Jefferson County Union: News

Ryan Whisner, Union regional editor
2014/10/01 09:14 | Updated: 2014/10/02 08:48

At about 100 feet, Julik's glider caught a wind shear, which caused the glider to pitch to one side and take a nosedive. That led to the aircraft violently overturning, driving the pilot into the ground.

"One of our guys out here loves to say, 'if we could see the wind, we would probably never fly," Lange said. "In this particular case, it would have been nice to see that because it didn't matter what your skill level was, when you get into something that can toss you around like a leaf, it's pretty sad."

...sometimes, regardless of your skill level, you can just catch a wind shear and get tossed around like a leaf and driven into the ground.

Ive heard of Davis censoring some people on his forum as well, so I could see why they would want to post here.

http://www.hanggliding.org/wiki/HG_ORG_Mission_Statement
HG ORG Mission Statement - Hang Gliding Wiki

HangGliding.Org Rules and Policies

No posts or links about Bob K, Scott C Wise, Tad Eareckson and related people, or their material. ALL SUCH POSTS WILL BE IMMEDIATELY DELETED. These people are poison to this sport and are permanently banned from this site in every possible way imaginable.

However, censorship is not always a bad thing in some cases...

Especially those in which...

Please treat the admin as a regular user. As long as you follow the rules, there is NO CHANCE you will banned because you disagree with the admin. The admin would like to be part of this community too without having to walk on egg shells because people think his word holds more weight for whatever reason. It does not. But the admin will do his job as moderator when he has to. But please follow the rules and don't make him do it, he doesn't enjoy that part.

...someone disagrees with the Administrator.

...and I dont have the information to conclude wether his censorship was fair or not.

Really?

Marco Weber - 2007/01/04 14:45:16 UTC

I used to post there but hey oh well he had to start it then too and after it got out of control he just deleted half of my posts because I guess they just didn't fit in his "no free speech for everyone but me zone".

What constitutes sufficient information to conclude whether his censorship was fair or not?

Anyone who gets out of hand and attempts to turn this forum to mud will be censored as well.

Except, of course, for the Administrator and his pet douchebags.

There is a fine balance between free speech and censorship.

Whatever you say, Jack. Far be it from me to disagree with the Administrator.

In any case, id rather talk about growing this sport.

Twenty-three posts to date this year. Guess your mission is pretty much accomplished.

People should post their ideas here http://www.hanggliding.org/viewforum.php?f=19

phantomflier - 2007/01/08 06:11:56 UTC

I was an avid reader of Oz Report until I found this place. I'm not going to bash Davis personally, because I really don't know squat about this whole controversy, but I do get the sense that he is a huge egomaniac. I read OZ because that's all there was out there. But it all became very boring, very fast.

Have you checked it out lately?

He's not interested in growing the sport- at least not with the Oz Report. Frankly, it's way above what the average newcomer to the sport would understand..or care about.

And way below what any of the two plus two equals four crowd would find to be of any use.

Too much on comps and standings, not enough on getting new pilots hooked on this dream of flight. That's why I'm here

Looks like you stopped being here over fourteen months ago.

Jim Gaar - 2007/01/08 22:00:28 UTC

The guy has very, very DRY humor folks.

Yep...

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=25015
Zippy pounds in

Davis Straub - 2011/09/02 18:37:09 UTC

Concussions are in fact very serious and have life long effects. The last time I was knocked out what in 9th grade football. I have felt the effects of that ever since. It changes your wiring.

How could one possibly expect anything less? These keenly intellectual types never fail to impress me.

He says/writes things to get the readers stimulated/motivated/angry/happy.

Yeah, he certainly does all of the above. Same gifts as the aforementioned Hitler dude. Big surprise.

He is good guy and he is on our side.

"Our" as in other stupid scummy little shits like Jim Keen-Intellect Rooney, Steve Kroop, Jim Gaar, Marc Fink, Butch Pritchett, Sam Kellner...

You simply just have to know him.

I know him - and you. Totally disgusting.

Tom Sterner - 2007/01/08 22:54:32 UTC

I know I probably influenced this string with the opinion...

Glaringly obvious facts.

...I stated on page one it was not my intention to start a bashing string. I have my reasons but since this string is into it's third page why don't we all just let it go...

Why don't we all just ramp it up until this malignancy is properly and thoroughly nuked?

...it's getting old and he is getting free press.

It's NEVER gonna get old and he's getting the kind of free press he deserves.

Back to flying.

Yeah, let's just get back to flying and not worry about this piece of shit and his flight park cohorts hijacking the sport.

T.B. - 2007/01/09 03:03:25 UTC

Davis can have free press here...
Maybe if he reads the diffrences in opinion here, he will look into his own mirror and realize how far he left the sport behind...

He'd hafta have a reflection for anything like that to happen.

...just to make himself godlike......(self crapulance).

SG..I would love if you could invite Davis to this forum...

Why does he need an invitation? What's stopping him from registering and responding?

...just to clear some things up.....

Yeah, right. That motherfucker's entire existence is dedicated to making sure nothing EVER gets cleared up.

(but than again he's too self involved to give a crap about someone elses opinion )

Then why does he delete posts, sabotage and lock down threads, ban people? You better believe he gives craps about others' "OPINIONS". Mobilize enough of them in the right direction and he's toast - just like his li'l Rooney buddy.

Jack Axaopoulos - 2007/01/09 03:23:03 UTC

I doubt Davis will come here and post where he doesnt have control over the thread.

Eventually he'll have to. He'll cripple his own forum to the extent that nobody will ever bother posting anything of any significance and he'll need to go to your sewer to try to run damage control. And you'll let him because of his political clout.

But the level of civility on this thread is turning sour...

It needs to.

...it needs to tone down a bit...

Fuck you.

...or ill lock the thread before it gets too out of hand.

Before there's any risk of anything of any actual substance happens.

Lets think about the people who come to this web site who are curious about hang gliding. The last thing they need to see is a bunch of HG pilots bickering over some polarizing figure like Davis.

Yeah, the LAST thing we want them to see is an honest and open depiction of what's actually going on in the sport. We want to delude them into believing that glider jockeys are all really great guys motivated solely by their love of free flight and constantly striving to make hang gliding the best it can possibly be.

Im not a Davis fan, and he knows it, but lets put this Davis talk to rest. Deal?

Go fuck yourself.

T.B. - 2007/01/09 03:35:08 UTC

Your Right.....I didn't think about the benefit of newcomers when posting on this topic. It's a deal.

Go fuck yourself.

End of thread.

Jack Axaopoulos - 2007/01/04 17:43:27 UTC

This site exists to promote the sport of HG and for HG pilots.

That's bullshit. That's what USHGA's bullshit magazine does. And it accomplishes the precise opposite. You wanna promote the sport of hang gliding you work with and - infinitely more importantly as things stand - AGAINST the people already in it to fix and optimize it. It gets promoted as an inevitable byproduct of that effort.

Davis needs a stake driven through his heart and his head stuck up on a pike. Look at these first posts from these individuals:

2007/01/02 04:37:31 UTC - Tom Sterner
2007/01/02 13:25:12 UTC - HuttoRhino
2007/01/02 14:46:39 UTC - naturewoo
2007/01/03 03:47:32 UTC - T.B.
2007/01/03 04:30:17 UTC - Jason Boehm
2007/01/03 18:18:17 UTC - wannahg
2007/01/08 06:11:56 UTC - phantomflier

They're all saying the same things - consistent, verifiable, obvious. The motherfucker's a sociopath and a major menace to the sport.

But let's keep things "civil", quash the thread before anything substantive emerges, let it get buried way the fuck back in the archive pages (398 out of 403 in "Hang gliding general" at post time), focus on sucking in stupid newbies by feeding them nothing but accounts of how great things were at Quest, Whitewater, Lookout, Kagel last weekend, not let them know that they need to watch out for scum like Davis and his associates who'd just as soon kill them as look at them.

THIS:

Zack C - 2010/12/13 04:58:15 UTC

I had a very different mindset too back then and trusted the people that made my equipment. Since then I've realized (largely due to this discussion) that while I can certainly consider the advice of others, I can't trust anyone in this sport but myself.

Zack C - 2012/06/02 02:20:45

I just cannot fathom how our sport can be so screwed up.

needs to be Lesson One for anybody and everybody seriously thinking about hooking into one of these things.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.shga.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=4566
Bad Flying and some good luck at Kagel

NMERider - 2014/10/14 01:53:25 UTC

I accept.

Why? What do you hope to accomplish and how do you intend to accomplish it?

Gonna do any better than Steve?

http://www.shga.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=3747
Looking for a Safety Mascot

43 posts, 4464 hits to date, still no safety mascot - thus the carnage has continued unabated.

http://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5566/14704620965_ce30a874b7_o.png


http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hhpa/message/11361
Question

Zack C - 2010/10/15 13:25:50 UTC

Speaking of which, while I can fault Tad's approach, I can't fault his logic, nor have I seen anyone here try to refute it.

http://www.shga.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=3638
FTHI

Mike Blankenhorn - 2012/10/26 02:39:07 UTC

Wow, I never saw it put quite like that before. Great write up!

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=31781
Another hang check lesson

Alan Deikman - 2014/09/23 19:47:06 UTC

Amazing how when this topic comes up every time you see people argue the same arguments over and over again. It has been a classic (although niche) endless Internet flame topic.

I suspect that some of the parties that have posted in threads like these before are refraining now since they have learned that it is nearly (completely?) impossible to change people's minds on the topic.

For my part I will just refer you to the classic Tad Eareckson essay which I call "the gun is always loaded" which is a bit overworked but probably all you will ever need to read regarding FTHI. A lot of people will find it gores their particular sacred Ox, but I have never seen anyone point out a flaw in his logic.

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=31781
Another hang check lesson

Allen Sparks - 2014/09/23 22:26:06 UTC

hate to get banned for breakin' SG's rule to not mention t** at k***s*****©
each time I tug, I think of tad just ~prior~ to launch
seriously, I have FTHI-d twice, and my gun is loaded.

I've now seen more unhooked launches from Kagel than I have hook-in checks. Any chance you could make JUST ONE of these:

13-03110
http://c2.staticflickr.com/4/3697/13700915564_87a2a336b0_o.png


http://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2912/13700562685_86575e9220_o.png
14-03129

happen? You could even do it yourself.

NMERider - 2014/10/13 21:09:21 UTC

Let's cut the niceties and start saving our friends, fellow club members and selves by changing the SHGA club's safety culture.

You wanna CHANGE - read FIX - SHGA's "safety culture" cutting out the niceties is EXACTLY what you need to do - big time, extremely. You need to call the total bullshit Joe Greblo and Rob McKenzie are teaching their students to use for unhooked launch prevention the total bullshit it is and publicize a complaint that they're signing people off in flagrant violation of USHGA regulations.

I won't be holding my breath waiting for that - or anything mildly comparable that's gonna have any observable positive impact - to happen.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.shga.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=4566
Bad Flying and some good luck at Kagel

Greg Angsten - 2014/10/15 23:33:36 UTC
Westchester

Safety culture at Kagel

I hate to get baited into this but I cannot let this slide. This has nothing to do with any "Safety culture" or lack of it at Kagel. There is absolutely no lack of emphasis on safety at this site.

Obviously.

- Like you've got one of those award winning Dan DeWeese...

http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5492/14666057035_1786a4e18c_o.jpg


..."Hook In!" plaques right there at launch reminding everyone to Hook In! Only a total fucking idiot would launch unhooked with that plaque right there. And when that happens there's always a thorough discussion of Joe Greblo's Five Cs with a healthy debate about what they are.

- And whenever anybody misses the landing strip and snaps his arm in half flying into the streamer pole...

32-1901


...or kills himself in a boulder field or across the street there are never any shortages of opinions on the best times to rotate to upright.

What happened here was two screw-ups at the same time and place. One was fiddling with a camera under the assumption that in the light traffic there would not be a problem. The other was flying in a straight line, evidently oblivious to the fact that he was heading straight for another glider. This happened not because either pilot is a reckless hot dog and flaunts it, nor did it happen because they don't know ridge rules. Put two distractions together in the same time and place and you have an accident, whether it's in the air or on the freeway.

Yes.

Painting this site as some sort of free for all is completely inaccurate.

Yeah, just the normal level of death and destruction one expects to find at ANY hang gliding site.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.shga.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=4566
Bad Flying and some good luck at Kagel

Donald Banas - 2014/10/18 16:24:26 UTC

Pilot B

It has been over a week and not a single word from Pilot "B".

It's been:

- twenty days since there was a Sad Loss to the Entire Free-Flight Community as a consequence of a normal landing approach in a bit of bouncy air at Whitewater and there hasn't been a single syllable's worth of discussion either on how that could've been prevented or the total bullshit Danny Lange fed to the press about it.

- twenty-six days since Steven Tinoson was three quarters killed in a normal student aerotow takeoff at Forbes and we don't have a single syllable from anyone involved on what went wrong and why and nobody outside of Kite Strings seems to give the slightest ghost of a flying fuck.

Any reason?

Yeah. The guy's an asshole. I'm sure hang gliding safety fanatic Orion Price will jump all over him as soon as he gets a spare moment after completion of his weak link testing program.

For what it is worth - I had the experience of being in the air at the same as Pilot "B" about a month ago. While there was no specific issues - I never the less have never felt so uncomfortable. Just bad vibes.

Bullshit. I get extremely bad vibes from people who get bad vibes when there aren't any specific issues.

Also - for what it is worth - I will fly with Pilot "A" any time, any place.

Sure...

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=7671
Gallery Of Pain

Christian Williams - 2012/01/18 19:58:00 UTC

He just provides his analysis. You often see him flying around in violent thermals upright, just (I think) as a kind of advertisement and thought-provoker.

'Specially in violent thermal conditions when he's advertising and provoking thoughts. Just look at how well he did in glassy smooth air when he wasn't advertising and provoking thoughts.

Robert Bustamante - 2014/10/19 00:09:04 UTC

Greg said it best.

What happened here was two screw-ups at the same time and place.

Pilot "A" accepted a portion of the fault, and it is apparent that if only one of the two pilots were not distracted, it could...

Would.

...have possibly...

Definitely.

...been avoided.

Don after flying with pilot "B" (an H2), did you talk with him about your "Bad Vibes"?

Yeah. He told him that while there was no specific issues, he'd nevertheless had never felt so uncomfortable. Just had bad vibes.

Maybe you could teach him some proper etiquette in flying with other pilots.

Yeah. Sure. Teach some proper etiquette to a Hang Two who was overwhelmingly responsible for causing a midair and hasn't seen fit to offer a single word on the incident in the week and a half since. And then maybe you can have a little chat with Matt Taber who happily sells all over the planet obscenely defective aerotow releases he advertises as the greatest thing since sliced bread.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=31969
Wanting to learn in Kansas City

IowaFlyer - 2014/10/20 15:11:09 UTC
Kansas City, Missouri

Hi everyone!

Not "everyone". (See the site rules.)

I'm wanting to get into hang gliding and I'm wondering where to start.

Japan and Eastern Europe would be a couple of your better bets.

I live in Kansas City, and as far as I can tell, there isn't anywhere close by where I can get introduced to the sport. I know that blindrodie is in Kansas City, is there anyone else?

ANYONE else.

Does anyone know where the closest place to learn to fly is, or have any suggestions on how I should learn?

Check out:

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=31781
Another hang check lesson

Second page.

Thanks in advance

Don't mention it. Good luck. Rejecting Rodie as your first move indicates good instincts. Come over here and I can give you a shitload of other sleazy pigfuckers to avoid like the plague.