The Bob Show

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=32059
Torrey Incident, should USHPA get involved?

NMERider - 2014/11/12 20:36:07 UTC

Jebb took Bob's bait. Bob wasn't documenting anything noteworthy. He was baiting and they took the bait. Now they are facing a potential lawsuit that I doubt would get dismissed as frivolous. All Jebb...

Gabe.

...had to do was put a helmet on and end the situation or calmly walk up to Bob and say, "Oh Bob you are so wonderful and safety conscious. I will wear my helmet from now on...."

The moral of the story is that if someone is baiting you with a camera or with words and gestures, then don't take the bait unless you want to be adjudged in the wrong. Now the onus will be upon the Torrey concessionaires to demonstrate that there was provocation.

So if they can demonstrate provocation they get a green on assault and battery and false arrest on trumped up bullshit?

This is the reason Bob has been banned from most forums.

That's arguably why the motherfucker is banned from THIS forum.

He provokes and baits others just like certain others who are also banned from here...

Name some. I'm one of the three most prominent individuals banned from The Jack Show. I'm banned - along with everyone who's on speaking terms with me - by name in the site rules along with Bob and Scott. Scott's not even on the radar. So that leaves Bob and me. And I'll claim that I'm head and shoulders above Bob 'cause:
- I'm at least half a dozen times more universally hated than he is.
- I've been banned from more forums than he has and started scoring years before he did.
- My name comes up a lot more than his does.

...and are merely PNG many other places.

I don't do much merely.

I've never been banned for baiting anybody. I've ALWAYS been banned for knowing what I'm talking about and not kissing the requisite asses of the idiots and scumbags controlling and populating the sport.

It's utterly point conduct and really very juvenile. This serves no one and no purpose. All Bob had to do was snap one photo and complain to any of the three RDs...

Who would've done NOTHING.

...and leave it at that. But he didn't.

He was taking pictures in a public city park. He had every right to do that.

And now the rest of the community will suffer the consequences, if any.

Any consequences anybody will suffer will result solely from the actions of the Gliderport thugs and the San Diego Police.

But I have got to admit that Bob really is the Master Baiter.

Kinda like...

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=27217
Bad Launch!

NMERider - 2012/09/25 14:21:38 UTC

But what we have in excess here on the Org is generally referred to as a mutual masturbation society. That's where pilots get together and sit around and just jack each other off. That's what I see here in spades.

...just about everyone on the Jack Show? (Maybe that's how it got its name.)

Dennis Cavagnaro - 2014/11/12 20:41:33 UTC

Fully agree Jon, the big picture is we have these assholes and when they get together we loose flying sites.

Get fucked.

I have meet Mr. Bob and have heard plenty over the years about Torrey. I'm an old guy and Torrey was a HGing/sailplane soaring site for many years....now it some sort of carnival staring PG guys throwing people off for cash and making it unwelcome for HGers.

Really? Then it sounds like you DON'T fully agree with Jonathan.

If these guys were in NY they would be in someones trunk by now.

Jason Boehm - 2014/11/12 20:49:13 UTC

Id love to see Torrey become just like every other flying site in CA that resides on a city/county/state park

Basic Rules, Basic Requirements for proficiency, and governed by the local club

WOR has done in general a bang up job in the Bay Area-

30$ a year, sign a waiver, get a sticker, go fly, when the site needs work, help if you can, don't be an asshole

RMHPA basically the same thing- 35 bucks sign the waivers, forgo the stickers, and don't be an asshole- when the site needs work- help if you can

Crestline- 100$ a year, sign the waivers, dont be an asshole

Torrey- lke 500$ a year, sign 15 pages of waivers, sign in every day, have to ask for permission to do tandems, blow a bunch of whistles, dodge students, get yelled at for producing wake

NMERider - 2014/11/12 20:58:34 UTC

A classmate's dad was found in the trunk of the family car when I was in grammar school. Two of my best friends' dads were attorneys for the same organizations that placed the classmate's dad in the trunk.

I hate to burst your bubble but Torrey is a very friendly site to HGs. I have always been treated great and enjoyed my time flying there.

Yeah, lotsa visitor/irregular types get treated great all the time.

So please don't take the bait. The reality of Torrey is that for every fifteen days that PGs can soar there may be one that's good for HGs on a full-year basis. The site is simply far more conducive to PG lessons than HG. Not even close.

USHPA must love Torrey because it may just bring more people into the sport of Free Flight than any site in the US.

Anything and anyone USHGA loves I tend to hate.

So please get your facts in order before drawing any conclusions. Bob is a hot-button pusher. Don't fall for the con.

I fell for his cons for much longer than I care to admit or remember.

Thanks!

Dennis Cavagnaro - 2014/11/12 21:12:48 UTC

Bob is not the only source of the negative vibe. Do you see Jasons comments above....any truth to the wake BS and the other stuff?
Do you have the numbers on Torrey pilot development vs. say Lookout or Wallaby? I would be interested.

Jason Boehm - 2014/11/12 21:17:09 UTC

I've been scolded for doing aerobatics out over the ocean, because the wake I put off blew into their students and scared them

Paul Hurless - 2014/11/12 21:25:34 UTC

The anti-HG bias that many have experienced at Torrey is nothing new. It's been going since Jebb took over the operation there. Many of us have seen it over the years.

There were problems there just within the HG community even before that. When Uncle Bill took over, there were HG pilots complaining about some of the changes he made and it's been going on ever since.

The site does look better now than it ever has even if some of the changes were probably done illegally.

The reality of the situation is that the Torrey Pines gliderport is a money making enterprise, first and foremost. That's why the leaseholder has fought to keep a stranglehold on it. Unless somebody comes up with a more viable business plan, and can convince the city council that it would be a better way to run it, we won't be seeing any major changes there.

Provoking incidents can't and won't help.

Who provoked an incident?

Be sure to keep in mind that what we see in a video is ALWAYS biased. It shows what the person who made the video wants us to see. That is true of videos made by private individuals and those made by the media.

So how come none of the Gliderport thugs have posted anywhere telling us what REALLY happened?

HG Pilots also need to keep in mind that Torrey is the LEAST soarable site in San Diego. The mountain flying sites there are so much better.

So?

Dennis Cavagnaro - 2014/11/12 21:26:59 UTC

I understand Jason, the stories have been going on for a long time. nothing new here and the biiger GA picture is that we all need each other. and there is a social element to flying that keeps people in a sport over time.

Or does the precise opposite with a vengeance.

No one wants to go to a site to get harassed or feel a certain "tude" .

I so do treasure the memories of my last couple seasons at Ridgely.

I have been very fortunate that the places i fly have always been full of good guys and fellowship.

Helps a lot if you've never done anything of any substance.

I do understand that Torrey good flying days are limited. Man i would never want to carry up a glider from the beach below. That would suck. But when its good why shouldn't everyone be equally welcomed.

Sometimes some people try to do stuff of substance.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=32059
Torrey Incident, should USHPA get involved?

Jason Boehm - 2014/11/12 21:31:28 UTC

well, usually if you go to the beach, someone will come down to help you. i was just watching last time I was there and John Heiney ended up on the beach, on the north face. down we went. its MUCH easier with two people

zamuro - 2014/11/12 21:39:53 UTC

I flew Torry a lot in the 90's under several managers (Bill Bennett, Monte Bell (sp?) Jebb snr) . I never had a problem with the site and always felt welcomed. Perhaps things changed for the worst after ???

They always do.

NMERider - 2014/11/12 21:45:29 UTC

A hang glider pilot (who used to post here) dove his acrobatic HG a few feet past my nose and then pulled up so hard that I hit his wake twice with enough force to cause my glider to roll vertical and fall toward the gap between the golf course and the RC area. This was my welcome back to Torrey in 2009. The pilot then had the spinelessness to pretend he didn't understand what he had done to me when I confronted him with it later. Bullshit.

I have hit the wake from hang gliders flying straight and level a half mile upwind of me and been severely rocked. So the concessionaire was correct. HGs have no business doing aerobatics upwind of PG students. It can and will cause a partial collapse or loss of control. Fly a PG into the wake of an aerobatic HG while you are near a bluff face and see what I mean.

The last time I flew Torrey I landed on the beach and a young PG pilot who was also working on his HG ratings helped me schlep my gear back up.

Let's face reality. HGs don't bring money into the hands of the Torrey Concessionaire. New PGs generate the revenue. HGs mainly take up space that could be put to more financially rewarding use. It's pretty basic business. Think of it as aisle space in your supermarket. You want to smallest and highest turnover products using the premium shelf space. The low-profit jumbo bags of popcorn and other crap can all go in some remote area of the store.

Hang gliders generate very little revenue for the Torrey concession.

Like solo hang gliders at commercial aerotow operations.

We don't amount to a hill of beans. Not there. Yes, LMFP and Blue Sky bring in a lot of HGs. That's all good.

Aside from the fact that both places are run by total assholes.

I don't know who's keeping score on the numbers.

Jason Boehm - 2014/11/12 22:05:49 UTC

Jono-I've flown thru my own wake, and I've flown thru tandem PG wakes, and I've flown thru hangglider wakes...

guess which of the 3 is the worst

not to mention PG's don't collapse, and when they do, they magically reinflate themselves when "all the energy goes to the other side " heard from a jebb P3 student recently

NMERider - 2014/11/12 22:20:00 UTC

Tandem PG because the wake of your own you are hitting is a fraction of the wake from your glider that others will hit when you are doing acro. Nice try Jason, but your response was misleading and only served to misinform others. It is physically impossible for you to hit the worst part of your own wake or even get close to it. However you are creating a high rotation set of vortices that last more than long enough to cause a serious PG collapse downwind of you. Tell you what. You go fly a PG next to the side of a bluff and I'll do some high-G pull-ups upwind of you on my T2C where you aren't even looking. Let us all know what you think after the fact.

Jason Boehm - 2014/11/12 22:24:28 UTC

I've been downwind of heiney/spinney/jeff and god knows how many others when they were inverted upwind of me...not a big deal

there is a big difference between something that happens well away from you and pulling 3gs right in front of you.

none of which compare to the HOLE that I've felt from tandems (both PG and HG- PG leaving the bigger hole)

furthermore- i've seen the same peopel do PG tandem aerobatics in the same place- wake isn't a hard concept to understand...someone doing aerobatics 1/4 mile upwind of you in 20 mph winds will take no less then 45 seconds to blow in, you can see the person doing it, if you dont want to fly thru their wake- merely move...

michael170 - 2014/11/12 22:36:41 UTC

NMERider - 2014/11/12 21:45:29 UTC

I have hit the wake from hang gliders flying straight and level 1/2 mile upwind of me and been severely rocked.

ROTFLMAO!!!

Undoubtedly from:

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=39919
Bob Kuczewski's video log

NMERider - 2014/11/12 20:50:04 UTC

Dan DeWeese - 2014/11/12 18:54:49 UTC

They dont know him.

ROTFLMAO!!!

NMERider - 2014/11/12 22:39:05 UTC

Says the wingless troll.

I'm a wingless troll too, Jonathan. I'm the Dark Lord of Trolls.

Brian Scharp - 2014/11/12 22:50:09 UTC

Now it's some sort of carnival starring PG guys throwing people off for cash and making it unwelcome for one HG pilot who deserves what he got. That better?

NMERider - 2014/11/12 22:58:16 UTC

Inverted hang gliders don't leave a wake Jason. They are at fractional G and not 3-Gs. More misleading info. HGs and PGs don't leave a hole. They leave spinning vortices which last a long time. The higher the G-load the faster the vortices rotate and the long they persist. 45-seconds is not a long time. When's that last time your HG took a 45% collapse or did a cravat? Did you say never? Why is that?

In case you weren't already aware of it, the concession at Torrey probably makes a small fraction of its revenue from HGs. My guess is the only reason they allow us there is because of the way the SD municipal code is written. Otherwise it may be PG only. It's not a USHPA regulated site. They probably pay a pretty penny for their liability insurance and the HG revenue only covers a small percentage of that.

Face it Jason. There are places where we don't matter.

Pretty much everywhere for Yours Truly.

Torrey is one of those places. They don't need us down there. Let's not bite the hand that lets us fly. Haven't we lost enough sites?

Not compared to me.

NMERider - 2014/11/12 23:08:14 UTC

Who said it was a carnival? It's simply obvious where the revenue comes from. I thought their student safety record was okay. My impression is that the accidents at Torrey were mainly experienced PGs doing what they shouldn't. In the times I have flown there since 2009 I have not only been treated very well but found then to be tolerant of my own indiscretions. A small cadre of HGs have gone out of their way to give the place a bad name. It's a shame. Maybe it's time that sg banned all conversation of Torrey on the Org and not just of certain former members of the Org.

You mean conversations like this one to which you've already contributed volumes?

Jason Boehm - 2014/11/12 23:09:47 UTC

a HG doesn't get inverted without doing something abrupt...its not misleading at all...

and 45 seconds is quite a bit of time. put 20-30 paragliders on a ridge, and tell me where they are going to be in 45 seconds, how many will turn, etc etc etc. if you don't see someone doing radical manuevers upwind of you- you simply aren't paying attention

see my post on the previous page. why is Torrey the ONLY site in the entire state that operates this way? a non profit club manages quite well at Tam/Ed levin/Mission/Diablo/Crestline/Yosemite etc etc etc

NMERider - 2014/11/12 23:25:56 UTC

Look who owns the land at Torrey Jason. The land owner makes the rules.

So do the Gliderport thugs and police.

The rules they make are pretty clear. It's in the San Diego municipal code. I've already looked it up in the past. It's not federally own land subject to federal rules and regulations in the same way that all the Forest Service land is regulated. Once again you are making a meaningless comparison that only serves to mislead and agitate others into attacking a legitimate business enterprise.

Jason Boehm - 2014/11/12 23:26:27 UTC

by small cadre- do you mean pretty much anyone that was ever a Torrey Local?
you yourself admit that "we don't matter" - that its a money making operation and we are just lucky to be there...
great name you're giving it...I wonder why

Jason Boehm - 2014/11/12 23:37:06 UTC

other than crestline/yosemite the rest of those reside on county or state land and yes. SD makes the rules...the lease for example says the yearly rate is 100$ , or a daily rate of 5$
that a tandem is 125$
what do they charge...for these by any chance?

Brian Scharp - 2014/11/12 23:40:47 UTC

NMERider - 2014/11/12 23:08:14 UTC

Who said it was a carnival?

Dennis and I.

Now it's some sort of revenue source starring PG guys throwing people off for cash and making it unwelcome for one HG pilot who deserves what he got. And now SG should stop us from talking about that place altogether. That better?

Garrett Speeter - 2014/11/12 23:40:59 UTC
Fairbanks

I flew Torrey once as a visiting pilot. really made me appreciate flying alone most of the time at my home sites. I had no problems. Asked the guy..he just said "yer fine" and off I was. Seems like I hear all about all this california flying drama online then when I go flying down there I never really have a problem.

NMERider - 2014/11/12 23:44:30 UTC

Brian Scharp - 2014/11/12 23:40:47 UTC

And now SG should stop us from talking about that place altogether. That better?

Crap, man. You made me laugh so hard I've got tears in my eyes. Next time I feel depressed I'm calling you!!

I'll bet sg is laughing so hard he isn't getting any work done either.

Good.

Steve Forslund - 2014/11/12 23:53:01 UTC

I have seen locals still flying there that have been there for ever, will not drag names into it but one still flys his old painted gliders. When I have shown up with hang glider and paraglider pilots we all flew and had no issues of course we were not looking for them. Yes it could all be better but Bob is not helping.

Brian McMahon - 2014/11/12 23:53:07 UTC

I don't think the place has a bad name, but there is no question that lots of people there hate Bob with a passion. And I'm not going to try and say that he hasn't brought most of that upon himself. The reality is that much of what Bob is actively fighting for is quietly supported by many HG pilots.

http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2467
weak links

Jim Rooney - 2007/07/22 22:30:28 UTC

I've heard it a million times before from comp pilots insisting on towing with even doubled up weaklinks (some want no weaklink). I tell them the same thing I'm telling you... suck it up. You're not the only one on the line. I didn't ask to be a test pilot. I can live with your inconvenience.

I'm the president of the Torrey Hawks, but I have neither the time nor desire to do more than lobby for change at Torrey, where Bob puts in real time. By that I mean days a month of time. There is no harder working volunteer for hang gliding that I have met. Most of what he wants, HG pilots want; fair representation at Torrey and some kind of oversight over the Concessionaire.

Right now there is no oversight at all. You got a problem with how the park is run, who do you call? Call the City Park and Rec department, they send you to the Concessionaire. Call the Real Estate Assets department, they send you to the Concessionaire. If you have a complaint about rules, safety, prices, anything, your only stop is the Concessionaire. That would be fine if this was a private flight park, but it is not and the Concessionaire couldn't give a crap whether you think something is fair or not.

By and large, most people fly there don't have a problem. But if you want to fly Tandems out of that PUBLIC park, the Concessionaire will charge you as much as he charges a member of the public. Legal? No, the prices are listed in the lease and a tandem pilot can't be charged more than what is listed according to the lease. Think the Concessionaire cares what the lease says? Nope, he has stated in a Torrey Council meeting that he can charge what ever he wants. Who do you complain to about this?

So anyway I forgive those of you who are ignorant or could simply care less about the problems that have existed at Torrey for a long time, you simply see one side or just don't understand why Bob would spend so much time on this. Bob almost quit and moved back to Florida a few years ago, but the Concessionaire, through his actions, changed Bob's mind and Bob is still at it, hopeless though it may be. I don't agree with Bob's methods all of the time and I think he can be a bull in a china shop with the way he berates people in emails, but he is actually fighting for what he and many others believe is the right thing.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=39919
Bob Kuczewski's video log

Davis Straub - 2014/11/14 5:42:39 UTC

http://www.ushawks.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1629
Jailed for taking pictures at Torrey

Bob Kuczewski - 2014/11/12 21:13:39 UTC

In my opinion, everyone on this forum is showing courage because it puts you in the sights of Jack (hanggliding.org) and Davis (ozreport.com).

Jeez, what megalomania.

Good point.

I haven't even had a single thought about the US Hawks (didn't even know that there was such a group), or any of these characters in the last couple of years.

Or...

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=25015
Zippy pounds in

Davis Straub - 2011/09/02 18:37:09 UTC

Concussions are in fact very serious and have life long effects. The last time I was knocked out what in 9th grade football. I have felt the effects of that ever since. It changes your wiring.

...much of anything since ninth grade football.

Tad Eareckson - 2014/11/12 20:56:54 UTC

Bullshit. Neither of those assholes could care less about who signs up of there. It's blindingly obvious they don't even make the slightest effort to monitor anything.

Told ya so.

So when a Terry Mason gets killed by a Sam Kellner...

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=28211
Platform towing fatality in Leakey, Texas
http://www.ushawks.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=1069
Prayers and Thoughts - Leakey
http://www.ushawks.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=1081
Platform towing /risk mitigation / accident

...you really don't do all that goddam much to find out what happened, do you Mister Journalist Davis Dead-On Straub?

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=32059
Torrey Incident, should USHPA get involved?

Timothy Ward - 2014/11/14 14:56:53 UTC
Mira Loma

NMERider - 2014/11/12 20:36:07 UTC

All Bob had to do was snap one photo and complain to any of the three RDs and leave it at that. But he didn't. And now the rest of the community will suffer the consequences, if any.

Has that ever worked, that you know of?

Almost as well as hang checks work to prevent unhooked launches and Rooney Links work to prevent lockouts and dangerously high pitch attitudes and otherwise increase the safety of the towing operation.

If the community at large can let their general irritation with Bob justify the sort of behavior the Jebbs exhibit, then maybe the community at large has earned those consequences.

God fuckin' damn right.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=39919
Bob Kuczewski's video log

None - 2014/11/14 18:40:54 UTC

It's a federal offense to temper someones aircraft.

The word is "tamper", "someone's", has an apostrophe in it, and a hang glider isn't an aircraft, legally speaking, it's an air VEHICLE. Still, there should be some legal issue with what that asshole was doing.

Swift - 2014/11/14 19:05:48 UTC

For the Record

Bob Kuczewski on November 13th, 2014 to USHPA Directors wrote:

Directors Dan, Alan, Corey, Rich, and Ken (cc/bcc others),

This past weekend (Sunday, November 9th and 10th) I was jailed for taking a video clip of Gabe Jebb kiting without a helmet...

You need to wear a helmet while taking a video of someone kiting or you'll be jailed? Nanny state gone insane.

...while giving instruction to a number of students. You can see photos taken from my video of the event at:

http://www.ushawks.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1629
Jailed for taking pictures at Torrey

Robin Marien (Gliderport Concessionaire/Lessee) asserted that my video taping constituted grounds to have me removed from the property and he told the police to arrest me. He also asserted that I was banned from being on the property for a year. The police offered me the option to leave the premises or go to jail. After careful consideration, I quoted from the lease: "The general public shall not be wholly or permanently excluded from any portion of the premises". I told them that I was asserting my right to be on that public ground, and they again asked Robin if they should arrest me. He said "yes", and I was arrested and taken to jail for the night and part of the next morning. I believe the charge was "tresspassing".

Now would be a good time to learn to spell "trespassing", Bob.

I am scheduled to appear in court on December 22nd, 2014.

I am asking - for the record - exactly what USHPA is willing to do regarding this matter. If the answer is "nothing", then please say so for the record. I am a current USHPA member, and my member number is _omitted_.

81898

Sincerely,
Bob Kuczewski
858-204-xxxx

7499

Davis Straub - 2014/11/14 19:12:05 UTC

What exactly is he asking the USHPA to do?

What's it matter? Whatever it is they won't do anything.

Swift - 2014/11/14 19:30:14 UTC

Respond.

Good freakin' luck.

[Tad Eareckson]

Bob Kuczewski - 2014/11/12

Hello, this is Bob leaving a message for Tad. I know... You're... We haven't been on the best of terms but I do want to say thank you for what you posted. I do appreciate your integrity and rising above our disagreement. So, as always you can call me any time and... Best wishes. Bob.

Tad Eareckson - 2014/11/14 23:37:16 UTC

Re: phone call

Sorry, not too good about checking the answering service and don't know when you called. Hope this response isn't too delayed.

What you're dealing with at Torrey with your PG shits is EXACTLY what I was dealing with at Ridgely with my AT shits. The harassment wasn't as severe but the "suspension" was lifetime (same as for my local club) - also without a hint of a legitimate pretense of cause.

That was a gutsy move and the right thing to do and I'll back you to the hilt on it and deal with all of your enemies in the appropriate manner. (Finding myself aligned with a lot of people I'd much rather not be on this one. And note that Orion Price isn't standing shoulder to shoulder with you.)

Best o' luck on it.

We've had a bit o' success in our battles. Don't know how much you follow things but we totally demolished Rooney and we've got Davis and Jack nailed down real well. Rooney can no longer post anything anywhere and Davis and Jack can't try to post anything of any substance. Very costly victories though.

Bob Kuczewski - 2014/11/15 03:18:18 UTC

Hi Tad,

I called a couple of days ago (November 12th). As I attempted to say on the phone, I doubt we'll ever see eye to eye on the world, but I do appreciate your integrity in speaking up when on of your most hated foes is being mistreated. I didn't want you to think it went unnoticed.

Bob

Bob Kuczewski - 2014/11/12

We haven't been on the best of terms...

Ya think?

...but I do want to say thank you for what you posted.

You're welcome. Thank you. So what's stopping you from thanking me publicly on your forum?

I do appreciate your integrity in rising above our disagreement.

Disagreement?

So, as always you can call me any time...

No, I can't. As much as I'd like to I can't afford to. When we talked on the phone before you misrepresented in print what I was saying - same way you...

Zack C - 2011/12/17 14:56:03 UTC

You continually misrepresent Tad's statements.

...did with the online stuff. When there's a written public record I can successfully defend myself. (And when I was on your forum I think I was spending about three quarters of my time defending myself from your misrepresentations. (And I'm guessing that was the game plan.))

Bob Kuczewski - 2014/11/15 03:18:18 UTC

...I doubt we'll ever see eye to eye on the world...

We won't...

http://www.ushawks.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1563
Platform Launching (PL) Draft suggestions needed

Bob Kuczewski - 2014/06/06 17:21:51 UTC

I also like that this discussion emphasizes that breaking a weak link is something that can be practiced - just like we practice stalls - so we understand how to handle them and to not be afraid of them.

Wills Wing / Blue Sky / Steve Wendt / Ryan Voight Productions - 2007/03

NEVER CUT THE POWER...



Reduce Gradually
Increase Gradually

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8143/7462005802_bbc0ac66ac_o.jpg


http://www.ushawks.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=795
AL's Flight At Packsaddle 10-04-11

Bob Kuczewski - 2011/10/18 03:44:44 UTC

Tad,

Otto Lilienthal died in a glider accident in 1896. Maybe you should mention that as well?

EVER. In MY world stalls are DANGEROUS and were ultimate factors in the two hang gliding funerals I've attended. Hang gliding needs to be controlled by people who know what the fuck they're talking about and can't afford to tolerate fishing line junkies and assholes with dump levers wired to make good decisions in the interest of the glider pilot's safety.

You set up an environment which got one of your guys killed and the perpetrator was able to walk scot-free and pretty much socially unscathed. Terry and I were NOT buddies and I got a lot of really great toldyasos out of that one but I'm still pretty sure I feel a lot worse about his death than you do or ever will.

...but I do appreciate your integrity...

But not enough to reinstate me amongst the hallowed ranks of such pillars of the hang gliding community as Sam Kellner, Charlie Schneider, Peter Birren - merely because of your deep concern for people of varying ages.

...in speaking up when on of your most hated foes is being mistreated.

Along with hang gliding, fairness, rules, the law.

I didn't want you to think it went unnoticed.

It'll go a lot less unnoticed if you post something on your forum.

Try this. Use Startpage - http://www.startpage.com/ - so's you get unbiased results and do a search for:

"Tad Eareckson"

What comes to the top of the list? ALL the work I've done in and for hang gliding and the first thing that comes up is a thread about what a senile, testicularly challenged lunatic I am and specifically a post from you about how you got Dennis Pagen to prevent me from doing much damage to the sport by communicating with the FAA about dangerous practices and how you were forced to ban me to make your forum a safe place for people of varying ages to visit (and allow me to better concentrate my efforts on making Kite Strings a really dangerous place for people of varying ages to visit).

Wanna do something really reciprocal and meaningful?

THIS *CRAP*:

http://www.shga.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=3840
[TIL] About Tad Eareckson

is currently festering over in Grebloville about a third of the way down on Page 6 with thirty posts and 8966 hits. Light it back up, apologize for the crap you wrote about me, and cut OP's balls off and hand them to him on a platter.

That motherfucker recently attacked me on The Davis Show and was getting beaten up so badly that Davis had to lock down:

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=39287
Tad Eareckson's latest tow release

and bury in his Basement:

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=39347
Please explain yourself without deleting me

So he's a pretty easy target right now. I'll be over here holding my breath while you get that taken care of.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.ushawks.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=1503
Torrey Hawks Second Sunday - February 9th, 2014

Bob Kuczewski - 2014/02/10 08:49:09 UTC

It turned out to be a pretty good day. All of the recreational hang gliding pilots were members of the Torrey Hawks!!

I had a short flight myself with a nice top landing:

I was there the afternoon before. First (and last) time.

I'd first heard about Torrey when I started flying in 1980. And that was the first time I'd been at a flying site and/or around glider people since 2008/10/12.

Game plan was to just watch, not let anybody know that I was a glider person, see if you were around and not get too close if you were. (I know what you look and sound like, you only know what I sound like.)

You weren't there so after a while I started dropping my guard. Got a tour of an Atos roll control system, revealed my flying background, helped a guy who felt the wind strength was a bit out of bounds bag his bag. It was a pretty nice fix for me and probably the last time I'll ever have even that level of physical contact with these sports.

If you'd been there and recognized me then you, out of your deep concern for people of varying ages, would've immediately started circulating and cautioning everyone and his dog to keep an eye on the guy in the (call it) white jacket and make sure he never got within fifty yards of any people of varying ages or vice versa. You'd have done in the field the exact same thing you do online at every opportunity.

It's been over twenty-eight years I've been dealing with that shit from people like you. Doesn't make ANYBODY safer, makes one person about twenty times more suicidally depressed and miserable than he is on an average day / turns a mildly happy day into pure unadulterated hell, and gives you a moderate bully fix high.

Look around, Bob. There aren't a whole lotta people using that sorta tactic against me. The ones who do - Davis Straub, Jim Rooney, Paul Hurless, Sam Kellner, Marc Fink... Arguably a few others. But it's a pretty small club and I hope you're happy being a member in good standing. But I also hope you ask yourself why it's not fifty or a hundred times larger and more inclusive of people who AREN'T total crud.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.ushawks.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1629
Jailed for taking pictures at Torrey

Bob Kuczewski - 2014/11/13 19:59:11 UTC

Let's see what kind of "support" a pilot gets from USHPA.

Bob Kuczewski - 2014/11/15 06:25:23 UTC

Well ... I did get a response from USHPA President Rich Hass, and I will be posting it soon. In his response, Rich made a somewhat disparaging comment regarding my candidacy for Regional Director. That got me to thinking about how I would respond if I were in his shoes (or any of our Region 3 Director's shoes). Here's my reply to Rich Hass and the other Directors:

Hello Rich, Region 3 Directors, and Silent Observers,

I got a long reply from Rich Hass which I'll pass along a bit later. In his reply, Rich made a somewhat disparaging reference to my candidacy as Regional Director. So I'd like to take this opportunity to let everyone see how I would have responded if I were in his (or any of the other Director's) shoes:

Hello Bob,

I want to thank you for having the courage to video tape and report this incident. It's clear that you endured considerable abuse for this, and as a USHPA Director I want to apologize for the behavior of the USHPA instructors who participated in the harassment that you've experienced.

I can assure you that such behavior will NOT be tolerated, and I will be personally seeking the maximum penalty that USHPA can impose - including but not limited to removal of instructor ratings.

Bob, as USHPA Directors, we cannot see and know everything that happens at our sites. So we MUST rely on the pilots - from coast to coast - to step forward and report these kinds of safety violations that could easily jeopardize our flying sites and our members. I am appalled and disgusted at the obvious bullying tactics by USHPA instructors who were clearly attempting to intimidate you from performing that necessary function. I would have expected a USHPA instructor (like Gabe Jebb) to politely thank you for pointing out his lapse. I would have expected a site operator (like Robin Marien) to likewise thank you for helping improve the quality and safety of the instruction at his site. The fact that they chose instead to taunt, harass, belittle, and eventually jail you is beyond my comprehension.

Bob, let me apologize if I've ever shown any uncertainty as to the validity of your efforts to reform Torrey Pines. What I've seen in just this one incident (let alone the numerous incidents in the past) is more than enough proof that USHPA's "hands off" approach at Torrey Pines has failed. I am hereby committed to USHPA taking an active leadership role at Torrey Pines, and I will be recommending that we increase our representation for USHPA and USHPA Chapters on the Torrey Pines Soaring Council so we can better represent the hang gliding and paragliding pilots at that site. Please accept my apology that this has been allowed to go this far, and let me know what USHPA can do to help in your defense against the obviously fraudulent charges that have been filed against you.

Well, that's what I would have done as a Director or President of USHPA. Stay tuned to see what actually came from . . .
. . . the desk of Rich Hass.

I want to thank you for having the courage to video tape and report this incident.

Incident?

Bob Kuczewski - 2014/11/11 07:12:00 UTC

For those who may not be familiar with paragliding, it can be quite common - especially in windy or turbulent conditions - to be unexpectedly lifted and/or dropped when kiting a paraglider. So it is always recommended that pilots never attach themselves to a paraglider without first donning a helmet. Yet here is the lead Torrey Pines instructor - Gabriel Jebb - regularly demonstrating the exact opposite to his students.

It is ALWAYS *RECOMMENDED*?

- By whom?

- If it's RECOMMENDED it's obviously not a rule - let alone a law.

- So you've checked out enough paraglider operations around the world to know that it's recommended one hundred percent of the time? Before anybody ever goes to attach himself to a paraglider rig somebody else always recommends he don a helmet first? How many new languages did you hafta learn?

- Who was it recommending to lead Torrey Pines instructor Gabriel Jebb to don a helmet this time? Got him on the video?

I think this is total bullshit, Bob. In order for this to have become an issue that actually mattered he'd have had to have been lifted and dropped (on a nice flat plush lawn) in such a manner that a helmet would've made an actual positive difference. Is there a single documented incident in which either someone who ignored the recommendation was consequently injured or followed the recommendation had the helmet spare his head some abuse?

We have a USHGA hang gliding REGULATION which states:

With each flight, demonstrates a method of establishing that the pilot is hooked in just prior to launch.

and the stated intent is that the check be executed at launch position as the first element of the launch sequence with no time delay.

You violate the crap out of it every time and everywhere you fly - including...






...Torrey. You ignore it and instead do the bullshit taught by Joe Greblo whose products launch unhooked left and right in that neck of the woods. I'd guess that's ten thousand times more likely to result in serious consequences and I'd suspend your rating in a New York minute.

I'm guessing there haven't been any kiting/helmet incidents at Torrey and we all know goddam well that Tad Hurst launched there unhooked and got seriously injured and ended his flying career.

What I've seen in just this one incident (let alone the numerous incidents in the past) is more than enough proof that USHPA's "hands off" approach at Torrey Pines has failed.

Yeah let's bring in the ol' nanny state. More regulation. Fuckin' Tad Clone. If you don't like the way they're running things why don't you just take your glider and wallet to the other gliderport five miles south of there? Let the marketplace work its magic.

If I were you I wouldn't be emphasizing the helmet thing very much. It's not particularly relevant to the big issues.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.ushawks.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1629
Jailed for taking pictures at Torrey

Bob Kuczewski - 2014/11/15 17:28:56 UTC

As promised above, here's what I actually got from Rich Hass. I'll be dissecting it in following posts.

Bob,

USHPA requires helmets for both occupants when flying tandem. USHPA requires pilots to wear protective headgear when flying at USHPA-insured sites. USHPA's Basic Safety Requirements require protective headgear while in flight. I checked, and I don't see any requirement for helmets/protective headgear when kiting. Gabriel Jebb wasn't teaching at a USHPA-insured site and he wasn't flying. As such, he didn't directly violate USHPA guidelines or SOP's. If there is such a requirement and I missed it, please bring it to my attention.

At the same time, I think we all agree - instructors need to set a good example when it comes to best practices. When instructors are demonstrating inflation techniques, they should be wearing a helmet - as should their students. After your incident was brought to USHPA's attention, Greg Kelley, as chair of S&T, contacted Gabriel and discuss the importance of the hemet requirement whenever clipped in. This was done before your email below was even received.

In the future, consider working with your regional directors or the S&T committee to resolve issues like these. No need to get yourself arrested unless you are doing it for the sake of publicity. USHPA won't get involved in your dispute with the Gliderport. Regarding this latest stunt, It will be up to the court to decide the matter, now.

Bob, I couldn't help but notice that the very detailed description of the incident you posted fails to mention the number of times you've confronted instructors at the Gliderport. It also fails to mention how your decision to serve as a paid expert witness, testifying against the Gliderport and USHPA instructors may have influenced how Gabriel responded to your passive/aggressive attempt to harass him while he was teaching. You've offered yourself up as an expert witness on the management of flight parks for the purpose of discrediting the concession operation. If the people reading your account of this most recent confrontation understood the backstory, it would certainly help them frame an understanding as to why Gabriel responded as he did when he saw you filming. I'm just saying, if you are as open and as transparent as you claim to be and as you expect others to be, why not let the flying community know you have agreed to receive compensation as an expert witness, where the outcome could involve closure of a landmark flying site? Yes, I know you claim that's not your stated goal and you say you don't intend to pocket the money you earn as an expert witness but the facts are, you did agree to the compensation and you are doing everything possible to disrupt Gliderport operations, where the end result may put the site at risk rather than simply causing a change in management.

You are free to serve as an expert witness. I'm just suggesting that you be honest about it. People have a right to know what their candidate for RD is up to.

One last thing: You are no Rosa Parks. Your self-described comparison to her is insulting and demeaning to those who put their lives on the line during the civil rights movement. There is no comparison. None.

Thanks,

Rich

PS - If you or anyone chooses to cross-post or quote from my response, please post it in its entirety.

I'll be dissecting it in following posts.

I'll start now.

USHPA requires helmets for both occupants when flying tandem. USHPA requires pilots to wear protective headgear when flying at USHPA-insured sites. USHPA's Basic Safety Requirements require protective headgear while in flight.

Does it require hook in checks, FAA legal weak links at both ends of the towline, releases that can handle loads up to and beyond weak link, certified gliders in certified configurations?

I checked, and I don't see any requirement for helmets/protective headgear when kiting. Gabriel Jebb wasn't teaching at a USHPA-insured site and he wasn't flying. As such, he didn't directly violate USHPA guidelines or SOP's. If there is such a requirement and I missed it, please bring it to my attention.

Toldyaso.

At the same time, I think we all agree - instructors need to set a good example when it comes to best practices.

Yeah, we all agree that. So how come all your instructors are incompetent assholes who do and teach whatever the fuck they feel like without the slightest fear of consequences? How come you've got motherfuckers like Tom Galvin teaching his students not to do hook-in checks because they give a false sense of security?

When instructors are demonstrating inflation techniques, they should be wearing a helmet - as should their students. After your incident was brought to USHPA's attention, Greg Kelley, as chair of S&T, contacted Gabriel and discuss the importance of the hemet requirement whenever clipped in. This was done before your email below was even received.

Oh. It's not in your SOPs but you're gonna call up Gabe and RECOMMEND helmet use in those circumstances. But when weak links are in black and white in both USHGA SOPs and FAA regulations you're gonna let everybody do whatever the fuck they're happy with decade after decade no matter how many people get killed as a result.

In the future, consider working with your regional directors or the S&T committee to resolve issues like these.

Sure Bob, how come you never considered doing that?

No need to get yourself arrested...

He didn't get himself arrested, pigfucker. The Gliderport thugs and the corrupt/incompetent San Diego Police got him arrested.

...unless you are doing it for the sake of publicity.

How 'bout principle, asshole? Would that be an acceptable motivation?

USHPA won't get involved in your dispute with the Gliderport.

Big fuckin' surprise. So will it get involved when a member who wants to fly with the protection of USHGA and FAA aerotow safety regulations?

http://www.ushawks.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=463
Davis Straub's "Oz Report" Conflict of Interest

Bob Kuczewski - 2011/02/12 06:56:36 UTC

Without naming names (I'm curious to see if they'll own up to it first), on May 10, 2009, one Director wrote:

We need to consider getting an injunction against this guy communicating with the FAA on this subject.

That same day, another Director responded:

I forwarded the letter to Tim Herr yesterday asking about this.

For those who don't know, Tim Herr is ... USHPA's lawyer!!

A third Director (who I'll call "Mr. X") chimed in that same day with this:

Perhaps a strongly worded letter from Tim will do the trick. We can't force Tad to work within the USHPA framework but we can make it unpleasant and expensive for him if he chooses to makes derogatory and false statements about USHPA to the FAA he can't back up.

Just curious.

Regarding this latest stunt...

Oh. It's a STUNT. Is that USHGA's official position on Bob's actions?

It will be up to the court to decide the matter, now.

1. And USHGA bylaws totally prohibit it from any involvement whatsoever.
2. How the fuck do you know? How the fuck do you know that the city's attorney won't run the charge through the shredder as he should?

Bob, I couldn't help but notice that the very detailed description of the incident you posted fails to mention the number of times you've confronted instructors at the Gliderport.

I couldn't help but notice that anything that ever transpired there before was totally irrelevant to what happened on 2014/11/09.

It also fails to mention how your decision to serve as a paid expert witness, testifying against the Gliderport and USHPA instructors may have influenced how Gabriel responded...

I don't give a flying fuck what influenced that thug to commit assault and battery on anyone taking pictures in a public city park.

...to your passive/aggressive attempt to harass him while he was teaching.

Oh. That's what he was doing? Why wait for the court to decide the matter when you've already got a version which suits you really well.

You've offered yourself up as an expert witness on the management of flight parks for the purpose of discrediting the concession operation.

1. So:

- you know exactly what his purposes were.

- the concession operation has been operating in a fair, legal, stellar manner over the course of its entire existence so anyone presenting any evidence to the contrary is unfairly discrediting it.

If the people reading your account of this most recent confrontation understood the backstory, it would certainly help them frame an understanding as to why Gabriel responded as he did when he saw you filming.

I don't give a rat's ass if he shot their dog Saturday afternoon. If he was out of jail and legally inside the park boundaries engaging in legal activities there is NOTHING that justified those actions at that time.

I'm just saying, if you are as open and as transparent as you claim to be and as you expect others to be, why not let the flying community know you have agreed to receive compensation as an expert witness, where the outcome could involve closure of a landmark flying site?

Why don't you go fuck yourself? Bob's not required to reveal a goddam thing about any matters in his life unless he's under oath in the court you're happy to have decide the matter being asked a legitimate relevant question as determined by the court.

Yes, I know you claim that's not your stated goal and you say you don't intend to pocket the money you earn as an expert witness but the facts are, you did agree to the compensation...

IF that's true then so the fuck what?

...and you are doing everything possible to disrupt Gliderport operations...

Yeah, taking pictures of a paragliding lesson! That was the last straw after all those Molotov cocktails he was throwing failed to have the desired effect.

...where the end result may put the site at risk rather than simply causing a change in management.

1. The site's already GONE to a lot of people who want to fly hang gliders in a safe and fair environment.

2. Oh. Bob's putting the site at risk by taking pictures but the thugs running it aren't by physical assault, tampering with gliders, false arrest, illegal suspension.

3. Oh. It MAY result in putting the site at risk rather than simply causing a change in management. Well, everything's obviously perfect so, for the love of God, let's not do anything about anything.

You are free to serve as an expert witness.

Thank you so much for granting him permission. In order to express my gratitude I've just decided to grant you permission to serve as an expert witness as well.

I'm just suggesting that you be honest about it.

I'd like to suggest that you just lie your ass off about everything.

People have a right to know what their candidate for RD is up to.

Then they can ask him and decide whether or not they want to vote for him. Or they can ask you and get your opinion.

One last thing: You are no Rosa Parks.

He never said he was, motherfucker.

Your self-described comparison to her is insulting and demeaning to those who put their lives on the line during the civil rights movement.

That would include you, right? You were on the bridge at Selma, right? So you get to speak on behalf of all of those who put their lives on the line during the civil rights movement. Every last one of them is totally in line with what you're saying.

There is no comparison. None.

Fuck you, Rich.

Thanks,
Rich

And the horse you rode in on.

PS - If you or anyone chooses to cross-post or quote from my response, please post it in its entirety.

Oh, don't worry. I'm treasuring every syllable and punctuation mark. What an astoundingly inappropriate response from some fucking asshole in his capacity as president of the national organization. Totally sickening. I wonder what I'd have done in early 1980 if I had been able to see this as the future of the sport.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=39919
Bob Kuczewski's video log

Russ Brown - 2014/11/12 18:11:15 UTC

Could somebody please explain to me why Bob got a big cheer from the crowd at the end of his city council speech?

Dan DeWeese - 2014/11/12 18:54:49 UTC

They dont know him.

NMERider - 2014/11/12 20:50:04 UTC

ROTFLMAO!!!

Really?

http://torreyhawks.org/r3/ENDNOFR.HTM
Endorsements

NMERider

I voted for Bob after spending a very enjoyable hour on the telephone with him a few months ago. My impression of Bob is that he is a level headed and enthusiastic supporter of both hang gliding and paragliding, and above all: SAFETY.

What's so funny?

http://www.ushawks.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1629
Jailed for taking pictures at Torrey

Bob Kuczewski - 2014/11/12 17:56:49 UTC

But let me be clear that I was scared. I was very scared. I was scared to the point of shaking.

That's not a funny situation no matter how you feel about Bob.
You ever done anything like that?

Phil Sergent - 2014/11/12 22:11:16 UTC

My guess would be that taken out of the circle of pilots with an unfavorable bias towards Bob, the facts of this situation are troubling to those who legally use our public lands.

Patrick Halfhill - 2014/11/12 22:29:26 UTC

I just wonder how much longer the government will tolerate this stupidity before kicking everyone out.

Forever. How much more stupid could this sport get and how long have local, state, federal governments been tolerating it?

Steve Forslund - 2014/11/12 23:32:12 UTC

Exactly my point, many of us tried to talk/work with Bob but it was impossible (even if you agreed with him) it was all black or white no nuance and a martyr to boot.

So Bob K has not stopped on his quest to lose the site for all of us. Was it windy or turbulent, does not look to be. Was Bob there to fly or stir up the pot. Wonder why just still photos and no video with dialogue, perhaps some critique from the sidelines while they were trying to instruct?

Brian McMahon - 2014/11/13 00:07:58 UTC

Bob was there for a monthly club meeting. It so happens that the day was particularly bad for flying, so nobody showed up until later. He did not post the video because he is concerned about the legal situation he is in. He said he will post it once all the legal aspects are resolved. I watched the video in its entirety, Bob did not say anything until Gabe told Bob to 'get out of here'. Bob had his glider set up to fly that day, and part of the video shows Robin untie it and just leave it there, which was a bizarre thing to do.

Not for those assholes.

Rich Diamond - 2014/11/13 16:40:49 UTC

Bobs video log....

That's it, Rich. Truncate the thread title, eliminate the apostrophe, hold the period key down for a bit.

Sheer Stupidity that someone would deliberately Untie a persons glider without consent !
It seems that Bob is correct in his judgement about teaching without Helmet , and Not in the best light here airing out this laundry in public
Though i don't know Bob, and it really doesn't matter, .... it IS Correct that this type of behavior JEOPARDIZES sites All over .
Why can't we all be responsible, and Not just think of ourselves !
The Mentality has to change .... maybe USHPA should step in to reprimand instructor , for "self regulating" Doesn't always work , and we will continue to loose sites
for the few Individuals who just don't think or care about the BIG Picture.
*** & no its Not Us ( HG) vs Them ( PG ) in this situation, nor mine !
JMO

Learn to write.

Davis Straub - 2014/11/13 19:21:22 UTC

Actually, I'm much in favor of loose sites.

Ignore the safety regulations, do whatever the fuck you want, manufacture cheap dangerous junk, force everybody to buy your cheap dangerous junk and fly with whatever piece of fishing line you happen to be happy with. Big surprise.

John - 2014/11/14 03:26:47 UTC

Arrogance beyond belief. And this from a supposedly master rated pilot. I'm surprised that some others haven't commented on this.

If people comment on stuff like this what's gonna happen to all the discussions on flare timing?

Especially those of you on this thread who seem to defend the actions taken or should I say directed at Bob.

Brad Barkley, Alan Deikman, Russ Brown, Dan DeWeese, NMERider, Pat Halfhill, Steve Forslund.

Fr'ck'n outrageous. Not sure what I'd do if someone untied my glider without asking me first. I'd be pissed.

Sam Kellner - 2014/11/14 04:28:57 UTC

Re: Big Cheer for BobK

1. Sorry Sam, I missed the post with that title to which you're responding.
2. When have you ever not been cheering for BobK?

russBrown,

I see BigBird responded to your good question?

Then why do you have a question mark at the end of your sentence?

Rather than offer my opinion, here are a few facts I know.

What's the difference?

The city council members know BobK. Apparently something else on the council's agenda brought all the audience. They did not know Bob. He has video taped all his council presentations, normally only a few spectators.

Sounded like Bob got them to come together, across party lines.

Interfering with an instructor? Blindrodie and the whole house says no.

Ask Bob. http://ushawks.org

Davis Straub - 2014/11/14 19:12:05 UTC

What exactly is he asking the USHPA to do?

Swift - 2014/11/14 19:30:14 UTC

Respond.

Davis Straub - 2014/11/14 19:53:29 UTC

That is an extremely vague "ask."

Right up your alley, Davis. You're a world class master on extremely vague "responses".

Basically, I would ignore it until there is something concrete from Bob.

That too.

Bille Floyd - 2014/11/14 20:53:17 UTC

I flew and sold HG rides at Torry, from 1978'ish to 1989 ; Loved that place , seriously
Fun people to hang out with !!

What Happened ?

Michael Grisham - 2014/11/15 19:50:11 UTC

Great news with Rich Hass's response, there should be an increase in loose sites. The message from our fearless President Rich Hass is great for instructors out there. You can now fly under the USHPA tandem exemption, issue USHPA ratings, and follow your own SOP's of your choosing as long as you are not at a USHPA-insured site. There will be no consequences as a USHPA member as long you are operating at a non USHPA-insured site - a Loose Site.

With that reasoning there should be no need to have any USHPA-insured sites resulting in a huge savings to the USHPA membership. The next announcement we can look for from Rich Hass will be a roll back of USHPA membership dues to an annual fee of five dollars per year with the savings.

Great News.

No end to it.

Steve Davy - 2014/11/16 08:29:42 UTC

http://www.kitestrings.org/post7007.html#p7007

Let's see whether or not it gets deleted.