Yeah? Name some that DON'T. You have any idea just how long it took us to have things right enough to kill a pro toad with a standard aerotow weak link?This accident demonstrates a "perfect storm" of multiple factors where the elimination of any one or two of them might have prevented the fatal result.
Yeah...Although tandem hang gliding fatalities are exceptionally rare...
- Just like...
http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=16384
Tow Release Malfunction
...jams of the very very reliable bent pin release.Jim Rooney - 2010/03/26 20:54:43 UTC
Bent pin releases are indeed very very reliable. But 100%? Nope. It's exceptionally rare, but they jam. All mechanical things do.
- So how...
http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=25321
Stop the Stupids at the USHPA BOD meeting
...would anyone but Tim Herr really know?Mark G. Forbes - 2011/09/30 23:21:56 UTC
Here's how it really works:
- Member submits an accident report. Could be the pilot who had the accident, or some other witness.
- Accident report is sent to Tim to maintain legal privilege. Tim reviews the report and determines whether there's significant legal risk associated with it. He may redact certain parts (personally identifiable information, etc.) if in his opinion exposure of that information poses a risk to us. If the report is very risky, he may decide that it can't be shared further, and will notify the ED about it. He may also notify our insurers if he sees a potential for a claim, as is normal practice for any incident where we are aware of such a potential.
- Redacted report goes to the accident review chairs, for incorporation into periodic articles in the magazine. Articles focus on root causes of accidents, not on personal narratives or details.
The whole procedure is outlined in SOP 03-16, which you can read by logging into the USHPA website and clicking on "Policy Manual".
It doesn't. I have fuckin' FIELD DAYS with fatal tandems. I DESPISE the tandem thrill ride industry, most of the tandem thrill ride drivers are total douchebags, and they force you u$hPa pigfuckers to go on the record with moronic crap like this....the rarity of such events should not give you any comfort.
Well I don't do tandem and for aerotowing we've got Jim Keen-Intellect Rooney...Instead, you should review your own tandem and towing operational practices to see where you can take steps to decrease the inherent risks.
http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=31052
Poll on weaklinks
http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=31052Jim Rooney - 2013/02/16 05:05:41 UTC
Ok, keyboard in hand.
I've got a bit of time, but I'm not going to write a dissertation... so either choose to try to understand what I'm saying, or (as is most often the case) don't.
I don't care.
Here's a little bit of bitter reality that ya'll get to understand straight off. I won't be sugar coating it, sorry.
You see, I'm on the other end of that rope.
I want neither a dead pilot on my hands or one trying to kill me.
And yes. It is my call. PERIOD.
On tow, I am the PIC.
Now, that cuts hard against every fiber of every HG pilot on the planet and I get that.
Absolutely no HG pilot likes hearing it. Not me, not no one. BUT... sorry, that's the way it is.
Accept it and move on.
Not only can you not change it, it's the law... in the very literal sense.
So, you're quite right in your thinking in your example. The person you have to convince is me (or whoever your tuggie is).
I've had this conversation with many people.
We've had various outcomes.
I can tell you what my general ideas and rules are, but you do not need to agree with them nor do you get to dictate anything to me... if I'm not happy, you ain't getting towed by me. Why I'm not happy doesn't matter. It's my call, and if I'm having so much as a bad hair day, then tough. You can go get someone else. I won't be offended. Each tuggie is different, and I've had someone ask me to tow them with some stuff that I wasn't happy with and I told him point blank... go ask the other guy, maybe he'll do it.
I can tell you that for me, you're going to have a hell of a time convincing me to tow you with *anything* home-made.
"But I love my mouth release! It's super-delux-safe"... that's great, but guess what?
I've towed at places that use different weak links than greenspot. They're usually some other form of fishing line. Up in Nelson (New Zealand), they don't have greenspot, so they found a similar weight fishing line. They replace their link every single tow btw... every one, without question or exception... that's just what the owner wants and demands. Fine by me. If it wasn't, then I wouldn't tow for them and I wouldn't be towed by them. That's his place and he gets to make that call. Pretty simple.
Up at Morningside, they're using that new orange weaklink. It's a bit stronger and it has to be sewn or glued so it doesn't slip when unloaded.
If you're within the FAA specs and you're using something manufactured, then you're going to have a far better time convincing me to tow you.
My general rule is "no funky shit". I don't like people reinventing the wheel and I don't like test pilots. Have I towed a few test pilots? Yup. Have I towed them in anything but very controlled conditions? Nope. It's a damn high bar. I've told more to piss off than I've told yes. I'll give you an example... I towed a guy with the early version of the new Lookout release. But the Tad-o-link? Nope.
So I hope that sheds some light on the situation.
But again, every tuggie's different and every situation is different.
What doesn't change however is that it's my call, not yours.
And it's my job to be the "bad guy" sometimes.
Sorry. It's just the way it is.
Poll on weaklinks
...to review our towing operational practices to see where we can take steps to decrease the inherent risks and make most of our other decisions for us - speaking of tandem thrill ride total douchebags I'd really enjoy seeing splattered all over runways.Jim Rooney - 2013/03/05 21:40:02 UTC
I'm not saying that you've claimed that a stronger weaklink allows for a greater AOA... I'm telling you that it does.
You know this.
I'll spell it out anyway...
Increases in AOA increase the load factor... push it beyond what the weaklink can stand and *POP*, you're off tow.
Increase the load factor that the weaklink can withstand and you increase the achievable AOA.
This ain't truck towing. There is no pressure limiting mechanism. Push out and you load the line. Push out hard and you'll break the weaklink... that's the whole idea.
You want to break off the towline? Push out... push out hard... it will break.
As others have pointed out, they've used this fact intentionally to get off tow. It works.
You want MORE.
I want you to have less.
This is the fundamental disagreement.
You're afraid of breaking off with a high AOA? Good... tow with a WEAKER weaklink... you won't be able to achieve a high AOA. Problem solved.
I'm sorry that you don't like that the tug pilot has the last word... but tough titties.
Don't like it?
Don't ask me to tow you.
Go troll somewhere else buddy.
I'm over this.
Really? I'd like to read his advisory on those Wills Wing Finsterwalder wheel extensions that ate the bridle and guaranteed that the glider stayed locked out and the two-string release stayed jammed on this one.You are encouraged to re-read the excellent article by Mike Meier, "Why Can't We Get a Handle On This Safety Thing?" (http://www.willswing.com/why-cant-we-get-a-handle-on-this-safety-thing/ ).
Yeah, no shit. Ya do stupid shit all the time ya can expect to have more crashes. I never get tired of reading that one. Really makes me focus on my flare timing.Although published in 1998, the risk mitigation analyses and approaches in the article are timeless and still applicable.
Oh, it's the best. I've got a whole topic dedicated to it over here. Forty-four posts, reading over fifteen thousand hits at present. Same year as Mike's article. Surges of excellence we're unlikely to see surpassed in our lifetimes - 'specially if we focus on Mike's excellent article and Dennis's excellent book.Additionally, the technical information in "Towing Aloft" by Dennis Pagen and Bill Bryden is an excellent and complete reference on towing equipment and procedures.
Dennis even discusses two-string releases on Page 46:
See? Three-string/Two-string... Doesn't really matter 'cause they're both good if designed and tested properly by the manufacturer. And we know that the tandem pilot's two-string release was designed and tested properly 'cause the tandem pilot was using it.There are two variants of this release: 2-string and 3-string models. A problem some three-string models have is a tendency not to let go of the towline if the tension is reduced significantly before the pilot trips the release. A couple good jerks on the bridle will usually cause the towline to drop but it can be unnerving for the pilot since he does not know it will clear for sure. In response, some designers just use two loops of cord in the release. This doubles the load on the release pin and these releases can be hard to trip when loaded to a couple hundred pounds.
With the proper geometry, size and selection of materials the three-string release can be to operate reliably, even at low loads. Similarly, with the proper pins, cords and geometry the two-string release can be designed to easily under very high loads. There are no hard rules as to which is better, the manufacturer simply must test them extensively. We recommend you not be a test pilot, use proven equipment.
Will it be as good as the last one? The one that cautions us about the danger of a tandem glider becoming detached from the towline? That was downright clairvoyant.The USHPA Safety & Training, Towing and Tandem Committees are working together on an operations advisory bulletin regarding tandem and towing operations to assist you in reducing your risk.
Why not make it a mandatory SOP right this moment? The way you just did making it mandatory to wear a helmet at all times while hooked into a glider? It's incalculable just how many lives that's saved already.Recommendations for reduction of risk in tandem/towing operations will likely include:
- Recommendation that payout winch tow operations utilize knowledgeable and trained spotters capable of observing the entire flight and releasing tow tension by both dropping system drag and severing the tow line;
- Wow! It's almost like you copied and pasted the text...- Recommendation that before each flight, the Tandem Instructor perform a demonstration of the activation of the primary and secondary release systems immediately prior to every flight both as a teaching moment for the student pilot and test of the release system;
...from your hypercritical hook-in check SOP which has...With each flight, demonstrates a method of establishing that the pilot is hooked in just prior to launch.
2-112
http://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7600/28811055456_925c8abb66_o.png
...prevented so many unnecessary deaths over the decades.
- So you're mandating secondary releases for tandem platform tow? Can we count the typical two loop / four strand weak link for tandem surface tow operations properly installed and positioned between the tow bridle and the towline and/or the hook knife as secondary releases?
- And if we can make the easy reaches to our primary two-string and secondary releases and activate them while we're parked on the back of the truck with the driver pulling on the rope we know we're gonna be just fine in a low level lockout.
- As long as we're doing teaching moments for our students can we throw in something about differentiating hang gliding from skydiving?
Aw, just lose the fuckin' wheels altogether. It'll better incentivize the students to perfect their flare timing - like it says in the Safety Thing article.- Recommendation that wheels not be mounted outside the control frame;
Yeah, you sure don't want any more guys like Kelly thinking they can fix bad things and not wanting to start over - prioritizing convenience over safety. Probably wanna recommend safer weak links to better stack the deck in their favour.- Reminder of the low cost and easy reduction of risk through an early termination of a tow as compared to the potential high cost and inherent risk of continuing a "non-perfect" tow;
...fly locked out glider with the other hand...- Reminder of your ability to reduce the inherent risk by being ready, proficient and able to get through all of the sequential emergency lockout procedures - "release...
Make sure to keep those hook knives sharp, people of varying ages!...cut...
Yeah, if people would just think more about their parachutes when they're locking out down in the kill zone - and stop being so FOCUSED during lockouts exclusively on activating the release....throw parachute" -within the time/altitude available.
- I was smart enough to get my hands on this bullshit document. That should count for something.In response to this incident, your thoughts and ideas are actively solicited as we use the lessons learned to develop the operations advisory bulletin to help our other pilots and students avoid similar fates.
- But only if you're a paid up u$hPa member with a tandem and/or tow rating. Otherwise you couldn't POSSIBLY have anything to say worth anybody hearing.
- *I* got some thoughts and ideas - motherfuckers. But I rather doubt you wanna actively solicit them - 'cause pretty much all of them start with getting your fuckin' heads on pikes where they belong.
