instructors and other qualified pilot fiends

[Steve Davy]

These people are just too stupid to deal with. Nothing I say makes a dent.

[Tad Eareckson]

And this is news?

The point is not to make a dent in them. The point is to get them to open their mouths and say stuff which reveals them to be as incredibly stupid as they are to people who aren't.

If they were defendants in civil or criminal legal cases their attorneys would've slit their wrists LONG before this point. Keep up the good work and I'll keep feeding you ammunition.

I've gotta catch up on some of this stuff and just discovered that I missed an attack from Peter Birren on US Hawks a couple of weeks ago and I'll need to disembowel him as soon as I can, but if you get bored...

Try asking Rooney what Chad and Adam Elchin taught him were the breaking strengths of the single and double loops of 130 pound Greenspot they were using on solo and tandem glider bridles respectively.

They blow at direct loads of about 130 and 200 pounds but, until about 2005 or six when *I* tested them, they were telling everyone 260 and 520 - and doubling those figures to get towline tension. Meaning they thought they were towing the two hundred pound little girl gliders at 2.6 Gs - meaning in excess of the legal USHGA/FAA limit of 2.0.

P.S. Between my last post and yours we just doubled the number of Kite Strings General topics which have cracked quadruple digits.

[Steve Davy]

The point is not to make a dent in them. The point is to get them to open their mouths and say stuff which reveals them to be as incredibly stupid as they are to people who aren't.

Good point!

[Tad Eareckson]

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=25174
Build Your Own Weak-link Tester

Steve Davy - 2011/09/16 01:33:15 UTC

Dawson - 2011/09/14 09:40:33 UTC

A good weaklink will not break with you hanging there, but will break if you just bounce your weight on the weaklink a little, i.e., it's got to be a little bit over 1G.

Brilliant way to test a weak link. Wish I had thought of that. How much extra "bouncing" does it take to include the weight of the glider?

Note absence of response from Dawson.

Steve Davy - 2011/09/16 01:40:26 UTC

Re: There's just no one single solution.

Jim Gaar - 2011/09/14 13:05:23 UTC

The best defense is always to be ready and aware. The last thing I say to folks I am launching off carts and platforms is, "Be ready for an early release or weaklink break." It should be on your personal checklist as well.

I've bench tested these things by cranking them up to maybe five percent shy of predicted breaking strength a couple of times and backing off and had them blow right on target.

Steve Davy - 2011/09/16 01:53:27 UTC

Ratdroppings.

Did you come up with that on your own or did you have some help?

William Olive - 2011/09/16 03:59:24 UTC

It's a long time standard field test for weaklinks.

Well gee then, Billo, if it's a LONG TIME STANDARD - like the Bailey Release and 130 pound Greenspot - it's obviously OK.

A loop of poly rope around the towball on your car will do for a top fixture and a loop of poly rope for your foot for the bottom. Add a couple of snap hooks and you've got yourself an el cheapo weaklink tester. So long as it doesn't break under your weight alone, and it does break with a bit of a bounce it'll be good enough.

To do WHAT?
- Blow at one G - the universally RECOMMENDED rating?
- Prevent structural failure?
- Prevent lockouts?
- Keep the glider from getting into too much trouble if fail to maintain correct to position at Wallaby?
- Increase the safety of the towing operation - PERIOD?
- Prevent Davis from getting dragged?
- Keep Marc Fink from getting killed while he's reaching for his release from 250 feet or more?
- Break once in a while for Bart Weghorst?

Not so useful for off the chest bridles using half strength weak links...

- But OK for use between the towline and bridle?
- Or at the top of a two point bridle?
- Half the strength of what?

...but it can still be used as a check of the material. Just make it twice as many strands for the weight test as you will use in the bridle.

Well yeah, Billo. 'Cause twice as many strands is equivalent to twice the strength. Obviously. Don't even bother testing it.

Christopher LeFay - 2011/09/16 05:26:53 UTC

Did you come up with that on your own or did you have some help?

A study group was impaneled to brainstorm an appropriate label - much like with any other product; the key traits were isolated -namely, foul smelling, inexplicable deposits left behind by a rodent- and a set of candidate labels were generated for vetting in a focus group within the market. We have high confidence that the label "Ratdroppings" will succeeded in clearly demarcating your missives and distinguishing the Ridgerodent brand. Considering the effort made, your ingratitude is remarkable - yet maintains the product quality readers have come to expect.

Ratdroppings.

Christopher, you're a total goddam waste of space. Get fucked.

Jim Rooney - 2011/09/16 06:22:20 UTC

Hrm.
You walk into our forum (we've been here a lot longer, so yes, we are the community here, not you)...

- Who's "WE", asshole?
- Who appointed you to speak on behalf of everyone Davis hasn't yet kicked off the Davis Show 'cause Davis felt like it?
- All you other fucking sheep in the Davis Cult good with this?
- How long do hafta be on The Davis Show to qualify for community membership?
- If you suck the right dicks can you knock a few months off the waiting period?
- Gerry, you're on board too, right? 'Cause I don't hear you saying anything to the contrary.

...and start spouting off like you're some kind of expert.

Nah, only you fucking brain damaged experts are allowed to spout off.

I'd say "ratdroppings" is rather appropriate, and actually quite tame considering.

Considering his ability to read and perform arithmetic at the third grade level or better?

I like it.

Of course you do, dickhead.

If you don't, perhaps not acting like you know so much more than us simpletons and we might warm up a bit.

Yeah Rodent. If you wanna warm up the simpletons start acting as stupid as they are. And there just might be an Academy Award in it for you.

At present, I couldn't care less what you think.

Lessee, where have I heard something like that before... Oh yeah.

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24846
Is this a joke ?

Jim Rooney - 2011/08/31 19:49:08 UTC

This is going to be a bit harsh, but I honestly don't care what you think.

Yeah, we'll need to work on that problem a bit.
Actually, after a couple more exchanges with God's Special Little Messenger, you probably won't need any help from me.

I actually find you mildly amusing.

Ya know what *I* find mildly amusing?

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1238
NZ accident who was the pilot?

Lauren Tjaden - 2006/02/21 20:37:39 UTC

I thought I should post this since the phone keeps ringing with friends worried about Jim and wanting information. Here is what I know. Yes, the Jim in the article is OUR Jim, Jim Rooney. It was a tandem hang gliding accident, and it involved a power line. I have no more information about the accident itself. The passenger apparently was burned and is hospitalized, but is not seriously injured. Jim sustained a brain injury. He was and is heavily sedated, which means the doctors don't know and can't test for how serious the brain injury is. He is in critical but stable condition.

It can be entertaining at times to watch the newbies try and "educate" us, as if they're somehow overnight experts and we haven't been doing this for years and years and years.

The Press - 2006/03/15

However, he took off without attaching himself.
In a video, he was seen to hold on to the glider for about fifty meters before hitting power lines.
Rooney and the passenger fell about fifteen meters to the ground.

It reminds me of a funny saying a mate of mine tells...
When I was 17, my dad was such a moron.
When I was 21, I was amazed at how much he'd learned in just 4 years.

- Wow, a mate of yours came up with that all by himself? And he was what, like about 250 years old?

- Do you have any mates whose fathers - and every traceable ancestor going back about three centuries or so - weren't morons through ever stage of their useless existences?

I'm glad you've read lots of stuff on the interqwebs.
I'm glad you've thought some really deep thoughts about it too.
That's great.
Please oh please reverend, perhaps you can share with us common sinners what the heavenly powers have enlightened you to.

Grade school math and science?

Cuz Lord knows, we only do this for a living... what the hell do we know?

Not a goddam thing, you off the scale stupid, arrogant, evil little shit - and everyone who associates with you and/or even begins to believe anything else.

Troll troll troll de dol.

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=22660
What can be learned from this "scooter" towing accident?

Mitch Shipley - 2011/01/31 15:22:59 UTC

Jim, as I am starting to play with Elektra Tow (ET) at Quest Air (the battery powered "scooter" tow system you and Adam got me jazzed up about up at Highland) I've watched this thread closely. We all can learn.

Enjoy your posts, as always, and find your comments solid, based on hundreds of hours / tows of experience and backed up by a keen intellect/knowledge of the issues when it comes to most things in general and hang gliding AT/Towing in particular. Wanted to go on record in case anyone reading wanted to know one persons comments they should give weight to.

May all you sonsabitches rot in hell for all eternity.

Jim Rooney - 2011/08/28 08:34:12 UTC

Yeah, I've read that drivel before.
It's a load of shit.

You don't understand, Rodent. When Rooney says:

I find no disagreement in the professional community as to such.

"professional community" means only the brain damaged dickheads who "educated" and are on the same page with him.

Good point!

It's un fucking believable that Davis has managed to so effectively eliminate damn near any traces of intelligence and decency from his cult that people aren't lining up to rip that off the scale stupid, arrogant, evil little shit to absolute shreds.

Hey Christopher, George Stebbins, Aeroexperiments - to name a few off the top of my head... Go fuck yourselves.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=25174
Build Your Own Weak-link Tester

Steve Davy - 2011/09/17 06:03:42 UTC

Jim Rooney - 2011/08/25 04:55:25 UTC

Argue all you like about the "true" purpose of a weaklink... but it's only you that's arguing.
I find no disagreement in the professional community as to such.

Dynamic Flight - 2005

The purpose of a weak link is solely to prevent the tow force from increasing to a point that the glider can be stressed close to or beyond its structural limits. Lockouts can and do occur without increasing tow tension up until the point where the glider is radically diverging from the direction of tow. At this point tension rises dramatically and something will give - preferably the weak link. Given that a certified glider will take 6-10G positive a 1.5 G weak link as opposed to a standard 1 G weak link should not significantly increase the risk of structural failure. It will however significantly decrease the probability of an unwanted weak link break.

Jim Rooney - 2011/08/28 08:34:12 UTC

Yeah, I've read that drivel before.
It's a load of shit.

Jim Rooney - 2011/09/17 09:04:37 UTC

I came here expecting zero conversation, just pot stirring.

I was not disappointed.

Some day Ratdroppings might actually come up with something to say.
Won't that be a treat?

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24846
Is this a joke ?

Jim Rooney - 2011/08/31 19:49:08 UTC

This is going to be a bit harsh, but I honestly don't care what you think.

Why does ANYTHING matter? Whenever ANYBODY says ANYTHING that makes the tiniest bit of sense you either tell us all again about the hundreds of thousands of tows y'all have pulled or ignore the point or question. Like just now.

Troll troll, troll de dol.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://ozreport.com/12.083
Tin Cup

Davis Straub - 2008/04/24 14:15:03 UTC
Francisco Grande, Casa Grande, Arizona

We go back and look at the Donnell Hewett's original criteria for towing

Donnell Hewett brought his understanding of Physics...

Yeah. HIS understanding. Too bad we didn't have a halfway competent high school kid working on the problem.

...(the Newtonian variety)...

Not even close. Didn't even make it through the Laws Of Motion.

...to the towing bridle. We look at his original criteria and compare it with what is being used today.

By the half-witted dickheads who control this sport.

Where else are you going to find this type of work?

Lost In Space reruns?

You can send a mere $20 or more for a yearly subscription/donation.

Or you could just send it to USHGA for similar results.

Davis Straub - 2008/04/24 14:15:22 UTC
Hughenden Airport, Queensland

Skyting

What are the basic criteria for towing?

http://www.birrendesign.com/rhgpa_criteria.html

These are Donnell Hewett's original twelve criteria for a good towing system. Let's look at them with respect to aerotowing and our current practice:

#3: C-M DISTRIBUTION

The towing force must be distributed between the components of the flying system proportionally to the masses of the respective components. (Pilot and glider move in relation to each other and the tow force needs to be evenly distributed. 2:1 bridle is quite effective at this - 2/3 force on the pilot, 1/3 force on the glider.)

Pro tow type bridles are the most widely used type of towing bridles in aerotow competition. For the most part competition pilots don't want to deal with all the extra strings that come with 2:1 and even 1:1 bridles. 1:1 bridles are used with the "Moyes type system.

#4: C-M ATTACHMENTS

The tow line/bridle must be attached as closely to the effective center-of-mass of each of the components and must not be allowed to touch any other part of the flying system. (Violations of this produce lockouts, adverse yaw and other loss of control problems.)

The pro tow puts all the forces from the tow on the pilot and the pilot has to do the balancing act. The pro tow is connected close to the pilot and doesn't touch any other part of the glider and is the system most unlikely to do so.

#7: INFALLIBLE WEAK LINK

The system must include a weak link which will infallibly and automatically release the glider from tow whenever the tow line tension exceeds the limit for safe operation. (There is always the possibility something unexpected can happen. Breaking point should be appropriate for the weight and experience of the pilot, not to exceed 1G - sum of all towed parts.)

The pro tow and the "Moyes" type system require that the bridle go through the "ring" at the end of the tow line if the weaklink breaks. They are therefore not infallible. Other weaklink release systems are also not infallible. Infallible is a pretty high barrier, and we might want to speak of more or less fallible.

#11: RELIABLE COMMUNICATIONS

The system must provide a means whereby the pilot can reliably communicate to the rest of the crew. (Anything longer that 500 feet of tow line requires a radio - minimum from pilot to driver - for pilot-in-command. Everyone must agree on what signals or commands that will be used.)

There is only minimal communication used in an aerotow operations. Two signs/signals used by the ground crew, one verbal command from the pilot, three signs used by the ultralight pilot in the air. No radios.

I look forward to any response from the HGFA or other interested persons. Again, I have a direct personal and minor financial interest in the issues raised by this discussion, but no financial interest when it comes to weaklink material.

What are the basic criteria for towing?

How 'bout we start with some ten year old kid common sense stuff?

Manned Kiting
The Basic Handbook of Tow Launched Hang Gliding
Daniel F. Poynter
1974

"Never take your hands off the bar." - Tom Peghiny
"The greatest dangers are a rope break or a premature release." - Richard Johnson

Gregg McNamee - 1996/12

PRIMARY RELEASE CRITERIA

1) To actuate the primary release the pilot does not have to give up any control of the glider. (Common sense tells us that the last thing we want to do in an emergency situation is give up control of the glider in order to terminate the tow.)

If your system requires you to take your hand off the control bar to actuate the release it is not suitable.

British Hang Gliding and Paragliding Association Technical Manual - 2003/04

On tow the Pilot in Command must have his hand actually on the release at all times. 'Near' the release is not close enough! When you have two hands completely full of locked-out glider, taking one off to go looking for the release guarantees that your situation is going to get worse before it gets better.

Towing Aloft - 1998/01

For releases near the pilot, as typically occurs in aerotowing and platform launch payout winch towing, the trip cord should actuate the release in any direction to the side, above, below and even forward with no more than 25 pounds actuation force.

Lower actuation forces are generally desired for the above conditions, the tested limits are considered the maximum values beyond which safety is potentially being compromised.

The United States Hang Gliding and Paragliding Association, Inc. - 2008/03
Standard Operating Procedure
12. Pilot Proficiency System
02. Rating Requirements
10. Hang Gliding Aerotow Ratings
-B. Aero Vehicle Requirements

05. The weak link at the tow plane end of the towline should break with a towline tension approximately 100 pounds greater than the glider end.

Zack C - 2011/03/04 05:29:28 UTC

I now feel platform launching is the safest way to get a hang glider into the air (in the widest range of conditions). You get away from the ground very quickly and don't launch until you have plenty of airspeed and excellent control.

Angelo Mantas - 2005/08/30

Despite help reaching him almost instantly, attempts to revive him proved futile. Mike suffered a broken spinal cord and was probably killed instantly.

Soon after launching, the glider and tug flew through a strong thermal. This is confirmed by witnesses watching the tug, and the tug pilot's reporting a strong spike in climb rate.

Already struggling (as witnesses state), when Mike hit the thermal, a difficult situation became impossible. Mike lost control, and either locked out or stalled, leading to his dive into the ground.

How can we prevent this from happening in the future?

Wind streamers along runway. It's agreed that Mike hit a strong thermal shortly after launching. Placing streamers on both sides of the runway, at regular intervals, would help detect if a thermal is coming through the takeoff area.

Christian Thoreson - 2004/10

Thus wheel landings, the safest and easiest way to consistently land a hang glider...

http://www.birrendesign.com/rhgpa_criteria.html

Oops. Starting down the rabbit hole.

These are Donnell Hewett's original twelve criteria for a good towing system.

Al Hernandez - 2010

My payout tension was 65 pounds. Lighter pilots got 55.

I had to stand like a post, and not move at all once the truck took off at 25 mph with one foot in front of the other, and I am still standing in the same place leaning back, with the payout feeding me line, and there is a strange feeling, odd feeling to being pulled by the payout.

Then I take the first step to the run, and I am now running 25 mph, I am thinking, oooOOOOH SHIT, hope I don't have to run that far, hoping the HG gets lift so I don't have to run no more... My F-A running down the runway like a rocket. There is no wind, I have the right angle of attack, the HG is up, but still not enough lift for the pilot.

I can't reach my CUT line 'cause I have both hands on the downtubes, and if I let go of the Coke bottle grip I will crash.

I feel like pushing the HG into the air, or jumping up so it can lift, but I do not - that would make my situation worse.

I feel I am about to fall into the asphalt face first and crash, I am at my run limit, and feel I can not take another step. Still the glider is not lifting me.

The winch operator lets go of the pressure of the payout winch, my run comes to a jog, and to a stop. I drop to my knees.

What's the data to indicate that Donnell ever actually produced a good towing system?

Let's look at them with respect to aerotowing and our current practice...

What do you mean by "OUR" current practice? A bunch of brake lever velcroed to the downtube, bent pin, 130 pound Greenspot, glider ends up with the towline half the time, wheel-less shitheads?

Pro tow type bridles are the most widely used type of towing bridles in aerotow competition.

Along with bent pin barrel releases and 130 pound Greenspot weaklinks. And since you guys are all hot competition pilots the rest of us peons should just blindly follow your example.

For the most part competition pilots don't want to deal with all the extra strings that come with 2:1 and even 1:1 bridles.

And non competition pilots do.

The pro tow puts all the forces from the tow on the pilot...

So the glider doesn't feel any of the tow force. It all goes to the pilot and just stops. It's not transmitted through the harness and glider suspension up to the hang point on the keel. If you measured the tension going to the hang point it would be the same as if the glider were cruising in free flight - just the weight of the pilot and his gear.

Donnell Hewett - 1982/12

However, as pointed out in SKYTING NO. 1, this system results in the glider being flown out of trim. Specifically, the tow force is pulling below the pilot-glider center of mass and tends to cause the glider to pitch up on a straight tow and roll out on a cross-tow situation.

So you protowers must be having extraordinary problems with pitch up and roll out 'cause you're hooking up below the pilot/glider center of mass, right?

...and the pilot has to do the balancing act.

Or are you able to keep things reasonably well under control with your balancing acts?

The pro tow is connected close to the pilot and doesn't touch any other part of the glider and is the system most unlikely to do so.

So two pointers must be contacting the wires a lot more, right? Got any incident reports of that actually happening?

The pro tow and the "Moyes" type system require that the bridle go through the "ring" at the end of the tow line if the weaklink breaks. They are therefore not infallible.

And, of course, it's simply not possible to have identical weak links on BOTH ends of a "protow" bridle. And/or make the protow bridle so short and fat that it can't wrap.

And we couldn't possibly put a somewhat heavier weak below the tow ring on a two point.

The United States Hang Gliding and Paragliding Association, Inc. - 2008/03
Standard Operating Procedure
12. Pilot Proficiency System
02. Rating Requirements
10. Hang Gliding Aerotow Ratings
-B. Aero Vehicle Requirements

05. A weak link must be placed at both ends of the tow line.

And putting a Tost weak link in front of the tow ring would be simply out of the question.

Other weaklink release systems are also not infallible.

Really? Which ones? Where on the planet can you find anybody as fucking stupid as hang glider aerotow "pilots" who - after nearly two decades worth of Dragonfly operations - still can't figure out how to have planes on both ends of the string properly weak link protected.

Infallible is a pretty high barrier, and we might want to speak of more or less fallible.

DEFINITELY. The engineering solutions are completely beyond our capabilities so let's start shredding the standards. We've NEVER had much in the way of problems doing that.

But hey, if we can't make them infallible...

http://ozreport.com/12.081
Weaklinks - the HGFA rules

Davis Straub - 2008/04/22 14:47:00 UTC

Pilots must use weaklinks provided by the meet organizers and in a manner approved by the meet organizers. All weaklinks will be checked and use of inappropriate weaklinks will require the pilot to go to the end of the launch line to change the weaklink.

Weaklinks will consist of a single loop of Cortland 130 lb Greenspot braided Dacron Tolling line and should be placed at one end of a shoulder bridle.

...we sure can compensate by making them safer. If nothing bad can happen to us at one G then just imagine what miracles we can accomplish at three quarters or even half. We can be just as safe as we please because Donnell doesn't put anything like a bottom limit on us.

Two signs/signals used by the ground crew, one verbal command from the pilot, three signs used by the ultralight pilot in the air. No radios.

So how does the glider signal the tug that his cart can't handle the speed and he can't abort the tow with either his Quest and or Davis Mini Barrel Releases?

http://ozreport.com/pub/fingerlakesaccident.shtml

http://ozreport.com/pub/images/fingerlakesaccident2.jpg
http://ozreport.com/pub/images/fingerlakesaccident3.jpg


Oh, right... By sliding off the cart and power whacking. Never mind, we're good.

I look forward to any response from the HGFA or other interested persons.

Given that the other interested parties are as off the scale stupid as are you and your Davis Show cult members. Anybody else gets banned.

Again, I have a direct personal and minor financial interest in the issues raised by this discussion, but no financial interest when it comes to weaklink material.

Bummer.

http://ozreport.com/12.080
No one makes it back - Santa Cruz Flats Race, day two

Davis Straub - 2008/04/22 06:02:32 UTC

I was not the only one breaking weaklinks as it seemed for a while every third pilot was having this problem.

I'll bet people go through a thousand foot spool of 130 pound Greenspot for every day of one of the competitions you run. Maybe you should look into getting a piece of the downtube market.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=23199
Santa Cruz Flats Race Day 1 & 2 - Video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bTa6XL16i0U
SCFR Day 2 Highlights
LAGlide - 2011/09/20
dead
021-02800
http://live.staticflickr.com/3848/14609177375_f8c224836d_o.png


http://live.staticflickr.com/5529/14422573378_5385a9a99a_o.png
057-03703

NMERider - 2011/09/20 16:36:39 UTC

Wheels have caused me as many incidents as assistance. I prefer not to have them.

But, in stark contrast to everyone else in this idiot sport...

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hhpa/message/11155
Question

Shane Nestle - 2010/09/17 22:17:50 UTC

So far I've only had negative experiences with weak links. One broke while aerotowing just as I was coming off the cart. Flared immediately and put my feet down only to find the cart still directly below me. My leg went through the two front parallel bars forcing me to let the glider drop onto the control frame in order to prevent my leg from being snapped.

...you owe your life to 130 pound Greenspot weak links over too many times to count and only rarely do they cause the least bit of inconvenience. So for the love of God don't even consider going up with anything a couple of pounds heavier - you might instantly lock out and die. Or, worse yet...

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24846
Is this a joke ?

Jim Rooney - 2011/08/31 09:25:57 UTC

Only later, when we're visiting them in the hospital can they begin to hear what we've told them all along.

...have Rooney or one of his douchebag friends visit you in the hospital.

And DO stay away from wheels of any kind.

Shane Nestle - 2010/09/17 22:17:50 UTC

Fortunately, I fly with solid wheels on the glider, so me, the glider, and the dolly all rolled safely to a stop with no damage to anyone or anything.

No telling what kind of trouble you might get in with them...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vb4nUTAJXTk
Aerotow Incident
Allen Sparks - 2009/11/27
dead

...especially in an aerotow environment when you're using 130 pound Greenspot.

Diev Hart - 2011/09/20 20:03:08 UTC
Santa Cruz

not aerotowing.

you have only solo towed 4 times = get some wheels buddy.....you don't have the experience (coming off a cart) to not use them.....bad call Jammie....
but really just my $.02...it's your body JD.

- What did Jonathan's coming off a cart have to do with how his "landing" went?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AEICgGVJdSs
busted shoulder
Sparkozoid - 2011/04/24
dead
14-00725
http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3859/14423696873_f1326e2320_o.png


- How much dolly launch experience do you think he should accrue before he has your approval to go bare basetube?

[miguel]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AEICgGVJdSs

This video has been removed by the user.
Sorry about that.

[Tad Eareckson]

DAMN.

That was Sparky ripping his shoulder apart and wiping out his flying season in a brain dead easy field in brain dead easy conditions on a brain dead easy glider - after a sled ride which did not begin with a hook-in check.

http://www.kitestrings.org/post319.html#p319

And just three years after he'd given me a lot of crap about how Colorado wasn't really suitable for wheels - and how his flare timing had dramatically improved since he stopped using them.

Anybody know how to harvest YouTube videos so we don't keep losing these smoking gun treasures?

P.S. Thanks a lot for pulling that one, Sparky. Real service to the hang gliding community.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.dispatch.com/content/stories/local/2008/05/07/glider.html
Man plunges 50 feet in hang glider accident

The Columbus Dispatch - 2008/05/07 19:47

DARBYVILLE, Ohio - An Indiana man is in the hospital today after a mishap sent his hang glider plunging fifty feet to the ground while being towed by a motorcycle.

Michael Moskaliev, 32, of Muncie, Ind., was in fair condition at the Ohio State University Medical Center in Columbus, where he was flown following the Pickaway County accident.

John Alden, of Columbus, was towing Moskaliev's hang glider with a cable attached to a motorcycle when the cable failed to release and the glider nosed to the ground at 5:48 p.m. yesterday, said Sheriff's Lt. John Monce.

Towing hang gliders with a motorcycle to get them aloft apparently is a regular practice at the small grass landing strip along London Road, Monce said.

http://ozreport.com/12.094
The towing accident in Ohio

Davis Straub - 2008/05/10 23:15:43 UTC

"Motorcycle" at one end, 3000' down the runway to the end attached to the student.

More details here:
http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=6740
Ohio Glider Pilot Hurt in Crash - Firehouse.com (subscriptio

An earlier description of the towing there here:
http://ozreport.com/9.232
Scooter Towing

I am aware of two if not three accidents at this site with "scooter" towing using this relatively unsafe method of the operator being far away from the pilot.

As opposed to the competitions you run - with their absolutely impeccable safety standards - and records.

One accident involved a tug pilot/hang glider pilot who launched unhooked.

http://www.kitestrings.org/post351.html#p351

Too much noise for good radio communication. The operator couldn't hear the plea to stop the tow.

And, of course, who ever heard of providing a pilot a mechanism with which HE could stop the tow. Simply not done.

Besides - that's what the weak link is for. Must've been using a stronglink.

http://ozreport.com/9.232
Scooter Towing

John Alden - 2005/11/15

Scooter towing is in the e-air and working in Ohio. I found teaching on the hills back in the late seventies and early eighties to be very unproductive, and unreliable in spite of the fact that most Ohio pilots back then learned in that manner. Fast fwd to the 21st century.

Working with Michael Robertson convinced me that stationary towing is the best way to learn hang gliding. Articles in this publication about Dave Broyles's scooterzilla and talking with Steve Wendt about his experience with his Yamaha, combined with the generosity of a fantastic aviation promoter and airfield owner Wes Jones, helps get me back in the teaching saddle and Wings to Fly ltd (http://www.aldenaviation.com/) is born.

No need to reinvent the wheel here. I copied Steve's winch the first year and then Dave's winch the 2nd year. My Scootzilla, named by my scooter mechanic never knowing of Dave's, is just as ugly and just as functional.

I try to keep things real simple using barrel type releases and pulling off the shoulders as in aero towing.

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=6740
Ohio Glider Pilot Hurt in Crash - Firehouse.com (subscriptio

Craig Hassan - 2008/05/08 09:56:40 UTC
Ohio

I have some info, but not much.

Michal (Michael Moskaliev, 32) was a student of the local instructor. I do not know his abilities, or the number of lessons he has had.

He was scooter towing, launching from a dolly. Apparently he started to lock out almost immediately as he left the cart. (reason unknown)

Stronglink. Hardly any doubt about it.

The instructor released the line pressure...

What about the tension? Did he remember to release the tension as well?

...and Michal released from the line. Unfortunately his glider stalled and he did not have enough time or altitude to recover. The article states 100', but I would say that is probably a bit high.

He broke his right clavicle, and has a pneumothorax of his right lung. I have not spoken with him, but reports are he is in some pain, but otherwise in high spirits and expected to recover.

And champing at the bit for his next lesson.

Like I said, I don't know Michal very well, but the few times I met him he impressed me as a stand up kind of guy. Polite, well spoken, and had a very positive demeanor about him. I had only seen him tow one time, and he looked very solid from launch to landing.

I plan on calling him this afternoon to see how he is doing and if he needs anything. He is from Muncie Indiana, and is recovering at OSU Hospital in Columbus, so he is aways from home.

Craig Hassan - 2008/05/09 14:10:55 UTC

The pilot was distracted and looked over his should just prior to, or during the time he was leaving the dolly.
(Launching requires 100% attention and focus on the task!)

So does writing.

Looking over his should...

Of course, if one has no clue how to begin with, attention and focus may not be of much use.

...caused him to swing far enough to one side to leave the cart and initiate a turn. The tow force was quickly dropped, and a full on lockout never developed.
At this point the pilot could have pulled in, leveled the wings, and flown down the runway to an uneventful landing. Always fly the glider first!

Unless you need to reach for your release. Then it doesn't really matter what you do - either way you're screwed.

Care to tell us WHY he was looking over his should and not flying the glider?

The old saying "when in doubt pull in" comes to mind.

The pilot decided to release the slack towline. This required both hands to pull the line tight and activate the release.

Instead of just the one hand it normally takes - leaving the other to maintain perfect control of the locking out glider.

This is the method taught to the student, with the assumption the line breaks higher on tow and the pilot has time to release the line.

Yeah, we always teach - and equip - for best case scenarios.

While the pilot was releasing the line, the glider stalled and he did not have the altitude for a full recovery.

No shit.

The pilot did shove the bar out just prior to impact. It is quite possible this reduced injuries by slowing the decent...

And accelerating the indecent.

...even slightly. Or by leveling the pilot and refraining from landing in a head first manor.

Why was he flying over a manor? Were the servants upset?

The release is the standard barrel release.

Yep, the standard release in a sport with no standards. Good thing he wasn't using a Koch two stage. Even though he could've blown a slack towline with just one hand he might have gotten his chest crushed.

Oh, right. His chest WAS crushed. So now I've got a new name for a Bailey Release. Thanks. Can't wait for the next smartass remark from Rooney.