landing

General discussion about the sport of hang gliding
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NMERider
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Re: landing

Post by NMERider »

Tad Eareckson wrote:...Do me a favor, Jonathan... Don't coach these goddam Twos landing and bonking at Lockout, Quest, Lumby, Kagel, AJX on how to prepare themselves for XC landings in narrow dry riverbeds with large rocks strewn all over the place. Save it for the people who ACTUALLY are going XC over vast expanses of injun country and might actually have a USE for some of the skills you've developed.

Or at least wait until somebody approaches you on the topic...
It's a tough call whether to speak up, chime in, posit my tuppence-worth, wax poetic or simply cringe in silence.
I need to work on the full edit of this escapade but other obligations have my attention presently.

Bear Creek Landing 10-July, 2015
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WKnsOkk6A6s
Vicarious Icarus - 2015/07/13
dead
Tad Eareckson wrote:...Niki didn't lose her sole to the foot landing crowd because she was bored out of her skull with wheel landings. She lost her sole because of a perceived need to assimilate...
Sole? Niki lost the underside of her foot or was it the bottom of her shoe that was abraded away? Maybe Nicki ain't got no 'soul' because the foot-landing Borg done assimilated her spirit! ImageImageImageImage I caught a case of the clap! :o :D
Steve Davy
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Re: landing

Post by Steve Davy »

NMERider wrote:Maybe Nicki ain't got no 'soul' because the foot-landing Borg done assimilated her spirit!
It's Niki, without the 'c', NME.
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Tad Eareckson
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Re: landing

Post by Tad Eareckson »

I hate it when spellchecks fail to divine one's intent and correct accordingly.

But yeah... Excellent examples of what all Ones, Twos, and Threes and just about all Fours and Fives should NOT be aspiring to and/or preparing for.
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NMERider
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Re: landing

Post by NMERider »

Steve Davy wrote:
NMERider wrote:Maybe Nicki ain't got no 'soul' because the foot-landing Borg done assimilated her spirit!
It's Niki, without the 'c', NME.
You mean nobody's told her? They typo'd her birth certificate. :lol:
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NMERider
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Re: landing

Post by NMERider »

Tad Eareckson wrote:I hate it when spellchecks fail to divine one's intent and correct accordingly.

But yeah... Excellent examples of what all Ones, Twos, and Threes and just about all Fours and Fives should NOT be aspiring to and/or preparing for.
I guess we need either a divine spell check or a copy of this classic.
Those excellent examples are my personal version of that classic juvenile delinquency prevention series on PBS or wherever it was broadcast.
Believe it or not when I publish situations like that dry riverbed landing and other challenging flights I later have pilots thanking me for showing them what they're not missing and so fishbowl flying doesn't seem like such a bad deal after all.
Steve Davy
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Re: landing

Post by Steve Davy »

NMERider wrote:Believe it or not when I publish situations like that dry riverbed landing and other challenging flights I later have pilots thanking me for showing them what they're not missing...
Now I'm confused.

PS Big thanks for posting that Elements of Style link, NME.
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NMERider
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Re: landing

Post by NMERider »

Steve Davy wrote:
NMERider wrote:Believe it or not when I publish situations like that dry riverbed landing and other challenging flights I later have pilots thanking me for showing them what they're not missing...
Now I'm confused.

PS Big thanks for posting that Elements of Style link, NME.
In years past I had many pilots bugging me to take them downrange as if it was some innocent, hand-holding walk in the park with my little boy. It didn't make much difference for me to describe what was in store with even the smallest series of errors. So I began doing two things: 1) editing videos of high pucker factor events like The Long, Low Glide Out and 2) stating that I'd be happy to take them downrange as soon as they provided me proof of ten safe out-landings in such places as the chaparral, the dirt roads, the construction pit, the LZ parking lot, the side of the steep berm where the LZ drops off, downwind and downhill together, and so forth. None of the X/C wannabees produced a single safe out-landing over a period of two years. I also stopped promoting basin-side X/C to hangs but pushed it on the paras because they can land ten time as many places as we can plus they thermal much better as a rule and are extremely effective X/C tools. What really got interest to stop was recommending that hangs who really wanted to learn how to go X/C in the nasty LA Basin first learn to fly paragliders then join the SoCal X/C League and fly all of their local comps. Once they learn to fly X/C on a paraglider that allows landing so many more places they can get adjusted to the routes and the hazards and pitfalls. Once they know how things work in reality then start applying that knowledge to their hang gliders. The moral of the story is that if a hang glider is going to go long they're simply going to do it on their own initiative and at their own risk. Meanwhile I've been openly working of different techniques to help myself and others tune up landing skills simply for local flying onto a groomed LZ. This gives the same pilots the option of landing on wheels (most have them) if they aren't comfortable landing on their feet.

Elements of Style is a great read. I should seriously brush up on it myself. Strunk and White were a great team. The art of good writing is not dead.
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Tad Eareckson
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Re: landing

Post by Tad Eareckson »

I guess we need either a divine spell check or a copy of this classic.
Nah, that won't do any good for this sorta problem. One KNOWS the difference between "sole" and "soul" but the brain hears the sound and fires off the signals to the fingers. Proofreading tends not to do much good 'cause the author knows and sees what he meant to say. REALLY helps to have another literate person give it a read.

Steve and Brian are CONSTANTLY tipping me off to stuff like that that needs fixing. And sometimes I'll get a passage with a glaring mistake in it that I'll scrutinize until I'm half blind and can't find anything 'cause I'm still seeing what I meant to say.

Nevertheless... HUGE thanks for that PDF. I'll be referring to it a lot and there will undoubtedly be a lot of editing of old posts. Wish I'd had it at the start of this forum. Hell, wish I'd had it on a laptop at the beginning of junior high in the fall of '66.
Those excellent examples are my personal version of that classic juvenile delinquency prevention series on PBS or wherever it was broadcast.
Almost certain it wasn't on PBS. I remember it well from when it came out. Thought the convicts were a lot more effective when they were talking honestly about what their situations, lives were like than when they were pulling the fake threats of physical violence. But...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scared_Straight!
Scared Straight!
A 2002 meta-analysis (a study that combines the results of many studies in order to see the whole picture) of the results of a number of scared straight and similar programs found that they actively increased crime rates, leading to higher reoffence rates than in control groups that did not receive the intervention.

Two Justice Department officials have written an op-ed piece describing scared straight programs as "not only ineffective but is potentially harmful" to the kids involved. The op-ed appears in the February 1, 2011 edition of the Baltimore Sun, written by OJJDP Acting Administrator Jeff Slowikowski and Laurie O. Robinson. They say that, "when it comes to our children," policymakers and parents should "follow evidence, not anecdote."
No shit. 'Specially when the anecdotes are coming from some asshole like Jim Keen-Intellect Rooney and never seem to have any names, dates, sites, videos, corroboration associated with them and are flatly contradicted by tons of ACTUAL stuff we've documented from decades of reports and experience.

The Scared Straight situation for hang gliding is entirely different from the one in that 1978 film context. That was worse than useless in no small part because the target negative behaviors ALL have positive rewards - at least in the short term and not infrequently for life. Shoplifting, theft, burglary, robbery, drugs, drug dealing, beating some asshole to an unrecognizable bloody pulp, shooting an enemy or rival in the back of the head - emotional thrills and highs, monetary and power structure gains. You watch Bonnie and Clyde and you know the sickening way it's inevitably gonna end up but it's undeniable that they were having a blast for part of the ride and were to a considerable extent national rockstars for a while.

In hang gliding EVERYBODY is appropriately scared at the start, NOBODY EVER *WANTS* to increase his risk level doing ANYTHING - despite all the macho bullshit we hear all the time, and there's no thrill or benefit associated with increased risk. Chris Muller and Eric Mies didn't end up the way they did because they were trying to increase risk. They ended up the way they did because they were positive that their skills and judgment were so good that they WEREN'T pushing risk levels.

But these babies are walking into a nonpilot lawyer controlled industry that's trying to push an inherently dangerous product and from magazine and flight park and dealer websites on is conditioning them to internalize the concept that there's really zilch to be afraid of and what little there IS to be afraid of can be easily dealt with my something that will INVARIABLY *INCREASE* the risks of injury and death.

- Launched unhooked because you forgot to do a hang check in the staging area? Work more on remembering to do a hang check in the staging area. And make sure you have the backup loop hooked, carabiner locked, clearance proper, and helmet buckled.

- Smashed your face after the weak links broke at the worst possible time, when the glider was climbing hard in a near stall situation? Use a safer weak link that'll break sooner when the glider's climbing hard in a near stall situation.

- Glider did a wingover back into the runway when you made the easy reach to your release? Make the easy reach SOONER next time.

- Sidewire failed at two hundred feet? Make sure you never do a preflight sidewire load test. Those increase the likelihood of a sidewire failure at two hundred feet.

- Broke your arm practicing standup landings at Quest? You need to practice more standup landings at Quest. Take a clinic from Mitch Shipley, Jim Keen-Intellect Rooney, Ryan Instant-Hands-Free-Release Voight.

These instructors, schools, magazine articles, Pagen books have very powerful influences on the babies and their heads get wired FAST, HARD, and, in all but the microscopic percentage of flyers with triple digit IQs, PERMANENTLY.
Believe it or not when I publish situations like that dry riverbed landing and other challenging flights I later have pilots thanking me for showing them what they're not missing...
REALLY glad to hear it. See if you can get them to thank you a lot more publicly and help deprogram the Twos like Robert.
...and so fishbowl flying doesn't seem like such a bad deal after all.
Fishbowl flying is WONDERFUL. Tons of thermal markers all over the place and all the challenges I and 99 percent of the people who fly these things ever need. And at an airport you get to land right next to where you parked your car and take another shot or pack it up as you please and/or the situation allows. XC has its appeals and rewards but they're way oversold and we sure don't need to be gearing the Day Oners for it.
MikeLake
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Re: landing

Post by MikeLake »

Tad Eareckson wrote:... And sometimes I'll get a passage with a glaring mistake in it that I'll scrutinize until I'm half blind and can't find anything 'cause I'm still seeing what I meant to say.
Anem to that!
Steve Davy
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Re: landing

Post by Steve Davy »

Sure is nice to know that you're alive, Mike! I hope that you are doing well.
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