Brad Barkley - 2015/10/14 12:34:38 UTC
Is the state-provided LZ a permanent solution to the problem?
Wow.Nate Wreyford - 2015/10/14 12:42:31 UTC
The 1950 view of that LZ was better. Time to go retro?
And you can't show it to us?David Stevens - 2015/10/14 14:46:54 UTC
It is much smaller and also has some obstacle issues.
Me too, Dave. The sooner you get up on those control tubes the better.Dave Hopkins - 2015/10/15 14:25:26 UTC
I agree with going upright at a decent alti.
We know. Stunningly obviously.I DON'T think...
Neither do I. When people get their feet out of their harnesses they become tempted to use them for landing....having our feet out of the harness with hands on the base bar is a good or safe method.
1. If we don't have wheels or skids on our basetube we deserve to die.Our body swings around too easy and if the base tube hits the ground we are head down and likely to die.
Right. Get those hands up on the control tubes. Can't lose.A likely scenario is that you hit low turbulence losing control,
The Jack Show mutual masturbation society - where total fuckin' assholes like you can spew whatever moronic lunatic rot they feel like totally unchallenged.Need to transition because to ground is coming up but need to compromise because we are fighting for control. We have boxed ourselves into a bad spot.
Thanks but no fuckin' way am I gonna have my hands on the base bar. I want optimal maximum control whenever I see the ground close and coming up.If we are going to keep our hands on the base bar keep one foot in the harness.
Fuck more speed. We're trying to STOP the glider, aren't we? What kind of total moron would ever want more speed on a landing approach?If we need more speed we should have one hand on the upright and one down.
Also a great place to practice and become comfortable using your Industry Standard easily reachable and Voight/Rooney instant hands free releases.Practice this at altitude and it becomes quite comfortable.
Name something that ISN'T easy at altitude, Dave.It is easy to move the other hand up and move a foot in and out of the harness.
Why would we want OPTIONS on a LANDING? If we have options we're gonna start doing stupid shit like going back prone with our hands on the basebar, rolling or bellying in headfirst, trying to stop before we get to the old Frisbee in the middle of the LZ.It Keeps our option open.
Control tubes. Let's start using the proper terminology so the young pilots can more easily grasp these concepts.The safest position to be in when approaching the ground is hands on the uprights...
And head up - as high and safe as possible from the threat of impact with the ground...feet down.
The way Jesse Fulkersin did Sunday afternoon.That way we can use the gliders frame to absorb shock in a hard hit rather then a head chopper.
None of whom anyone can actually name.Head down with hands on the base tube has killed several pilots.
Somebody really needs to chop this asshole's fingers off to reduce his productivity to some comfortable minimum.Eliminate that from your flying and fight Accelerated risk factor.
Non fucking existent.Raymond Caux - 2015/10/15 16:32:00 UTC
Göteborg, Sweden
About "downtubes approach", the drawbacks come often from assuming that the hands hold the downtubes at the shoulders' level. Here the speed and control authority is weak...
Fuck Murphy's Law. You don't need or use it to predict the averages for outcomes of Russian roulette rounds....anything can happen and happens according to Murphy's Law.
Bullshit. We have much better leverage and thus control authority with our hands anywhere on the control tubes and why would anyone in his right mind want SPEED on a LANDING approach?But the downtubes are long and it's also possible to hold the downtubes at the elbows' or hips' level. There the speed and control authority is almost as good as hands on the bar...
Show me a video of some motherfucker who NEEDS to transition on a landing approach....without need to transition at a critical moment...
Yeah, keep that head up as high as possible. That way if anything goes wrong with the landing you've got more time and better options to interrupt its trajectory towards the surface - or one of the large rocks strewn all over the place in your narrow dry riverbed....only to slide the hands up, and without the head down.
Better late than never, Raymond. And keep staying prepared and optimized for those critical landing moments.Sorry to stay out of the initial thread.
Thanks Steve,Steve Davy wrote:That looked like a lot of fun to me, NME. It's the no headwind foot landings that scare me.
Also, interesting listening to the audio as you get into ground effect.
http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=33501NMERider - 2012/03/14 15:17:14 UTC
I refuse to come in with both hands on the downtubes ever again. I have had some very powerful thermals and gusts kick off and lost control of the glider due to hands on the downtubes. I prefer both hands on the control bar all the way until trim and ground effect. I have been lifted right off the deck in the desert and carried over 150 yards.
If ya really wanna do something significant to increase the safety of the sport it would be hard to find a much better starting point than coming down like a ton of bricks on that total fucking idiot masquerading as someone with a functional brain.Dave Hopkins - 2015/10/15 14:25:26 UTC
I agree with going upright at a decent alti. Head down with hands on the base tube has killed several pilots. Eliminate that from your flying and fight Accelerated risk factor.
One of hundreds of entertaining things I could pull off but won't attempt in order to preserve our Happy Acres privileges.Tad Eareckson wrote:Shoulda been a schmuck. They'd have thought it was cool.
Nah. I reduced the rest of the sound by 18db then faded it back in during the landing.Audio... Gotta be the glider noise reflecting off the ground.
In the real world of X/C it is often impossible to tell what the wind will be doing during ground skim until in ground skim.A minus seven tailwind is a plus seven headwind. I'll probably foot land in that.
Good summary!- We start training all our Zeros for XC landings in narrow dry riverbeds with large rocks strewn all over the place exclusively.
- Ten percent of them survive the training long enough to be able to engage in XC.
- Twenty percent of that ten percent actually engage in XC.
- When they do fly XC they land exclusively in huge Happy Acres putting greens. And virtually all of the ones who don't are immediately crippled or killed. And all huge Happy Acres putting green guys immediately learn that a perfectly timed spot no-stepper is the absolute last thing they wanna be attempting to pull off on an actual XC landing - 'specially in critical situations. Big fuckin' surprise given that zero percent of the assholes who write and control the SOPs and rating requirements and teach XC landings at the training hills, dunes, scooter tow fields have actually ever flown XC themselves.
- When the surviving fifteen percent of the twenty percent of the ten percent become Four-Point-Fives seventy-five percent conclude that XC flying is too dangerous and stop. (I myself was doing XC on a coastal plain peninsula which was pretty much one massive Happy Acres putting green as safe anywhere as the airport 'cept for no windsock a lot of the time and just concluded that landing back next to the car was more fun than racking up mileage.)
That's how it works out in the end. There are some decent sites in SoCal where X/C can be safely learned but these sites are in remote areas and unless there's an organized outing it rarely ever happens.And the people who are genuinely interested in flying XC don't need any motivation or instruction on how to do it. They're gonna develop their basic flying, thermalling, approach, landing skills at their home soaring sites and primary LZs and just naturally, gradually start extending out to other more distant Happy Acres putting greens....
That's the price of being a schmuck and trying to hit the cone for friends' entertainment. I've broken more down-tubes and tip wands trying to land on the cone than I can remember.http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=25536
Whoops! Snapped another tip wand :-O
I drank the Kool-Aid and I PAID!...NMERider - 2012/03/14 15:17:14 UTC
I refuse to come in with both hands on the downtubes ever again. I have had some very powerful thermals and gusts kick off and lost control of the glider due to hands on the downtubes. I prefer both hands on the control bar all the way until trim and ground effect. I have been lifted right off the deck in the desert and carried over 150 yards.
Yeah! That's great in little to no turbulence.http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=33501
How we judge our flying riskDave Hopkins - 2015/10/15 14:25:26 UTC
I agree with going upright at a decent alti. Head down with hands on the base tube has killed several pilots. Eliminate that from your flying and fight Accelerated risk factor.
I hear just as much nonsense face to face as I read online.If ya really wanna do something significant to increase the safety of the sport it would be hard to find a much better starting point than coming down like a ton of bricks on that total fucking idiot masquerading as someone with a functional brain.
1986/05/10. Spectacular was blown out and late in the day a bunch of us went over to Mother Vineyard - twenty to thirty foot sand bluff plus treeline - on Roanoke Island across the Sound from / downwind of Jockey's Ridge. There was a house at the northwest end of the run over which we had to do our 180s. Small cocktail party on the deck. We'd dive for speed for the turn right over it and everyone was having a blast flying and watching, having ground to air and back conversation segments.One of hundreds of entertaining things I could pull off but won't attempt in order to preserve our Happy Acres privileges.
Oh.Nah. I reduced the rest of the sound...
In the fuckin' airport LZ with a big windsock in the middle and streamers all over the place it can be impossible to tell what the wind will be doing during and at the conclusion of the skim. 2003/10/13 I was coming into Ridgely watching everything switching all over the place. Right after the crash I found out there'd been a dust devil tracking through within a hundred yards or so. Picked a direction and did everything "right". Glider just abruptly settled then went sideways. Wasn't a hard or dangerous crash but it sure totaled a downtube. I'm pretty confident I'd have been able to cope by staying prone, burning it down through that final foot, and getting the Finsterwalders on the ground.In the real world of X/C it is often impossible to tell what the wind will be doing during ground skim until in ground skim.
Milliseconds.Thermals come though and will run the wind through 360 degrees of change in under 20 seconds.
Thanks. Ya watch and think about this bullshit long enough stuff crystallizes every now and then.Good summary!
Yeah. More mountains and deserts, fewer humans, more and better launching and landing sites. BUT... We're humans - so we're probably not there.That's how it works out in the end. There are some decent sites in SoCal where X/C can be safely learned but these sites are in remote areas and unless there's an organized outing it rarely ever happens.
Hit that nail on the head. Think "The Deer Hunter" and Russian roulette for entertainment. And I'm totally serious about that. Not much fun watching tandem after tandem roll in totally under control and perfectly safely.That's the price of being a schmuck and trying to hit the cone for friends' entertainment.
http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=21088I've broken more down-tubes and tip wands trying to land on the cone than I can remember.
Doug Doerfler - 2011/03/02 05:24:44 UTC
Nothing creates carnage like declaring a spot landing contest.
At least not...I drank the Kool-Aid and I PAID!
...with your life. EXACT SAME scenario. Not to mention Joe Julik.Gerolf Heinrichs - 2004/06/24
Now, one task into the meet we are all hanging our heads as we just get confirmation about the fatal accident of Croatian team pilot Ljubomir Tomaskovic. He apparently encountered some strong turbulences on his landing approach. He got pitched up and turned around from a strong gust at low altitude, then impacted tailwind into some treetops from where he fell hard onto the ground.
Welcome to hang gliding. In hang glider approaches and landing and tow launching there's no such thing as non laminar air movement. Makes the theories, explanations, instruction, training, equipment engineering, fatality reporting much too complicated.Yeah! That's great in little to no turbulence.
That's the one good thing about having been blacklisted out of the sport. I don't hafta get along with, be courteous to, show respect for, associate with these assholes. And online I can tell them exactly what I think of them.I hear just as much nonsense face to face as I read online.
What did you think of their new and improved state of the art aerotow release that isn't warranted as suitable for towing anything?Robert Kesselring - 2015/10/13 11:13:12 UTC
These are what I fly with...
http://estore.hanglide.com/Wheels_LMFP_Safety_Wheels_p/2-18.htm
Wheels - LMFP Safety Wheels
ALL wheels are big enough - when you ignore the situations in which they're not.Not as large in diameter as the Lookout Mountain wheels, but they're big enough.
As fucking old Fives you and he should restrict yourselves to relatively well groomed landing areas anyway. And if you watch the videos you'll notice that all the fucking old Fives DO restrict themselves to relatively well groomed landing areas anyway. How is it you're imagining that these guys got to be and get to remain fucking old Fives? Perfected flare timing for safe landings in narrow dry riverbeds with large rocks strewn all over the place?As new H2's you and I should restrict ourselves to relatively well groomed landing areas anyway.
Or misspell.I like that they're pneumatic, so if you mis-time...
1. Mistime your flare? You haven't perfected your flare timing yet? Are you sure this is the right sport for you?...your flair and come down hard on the base tube the wheels give you a couple inches of cushion that can prevent bent tubes.
From the horror of bent control tubes. Nevertheless... You should really start focusing on perfecting your flare timing so's you can get your Three, ditch the shock absorbers, and start landing in narrow dry riverbeds with large rocks strewn all over the place - like thems what have been at an around all this plenty long enough to understand what's what and who's who. At that point you should also consider ditching your training helmet. Once you've perfected your flare timing there's really not much point in flying with one of those either.They've already saved me a couple times.
Jeez Allen. If the eight inchers are big enough what are you using THOSE monstrosities for? Do you really need all that extra shock absorption capacity? And you've been flying for 39 years. When the hell are you gonna perfect your flare timing, stop training and restricting yourself to relatively well groomed landing areas, and start flying and landing in narrow dry riverbeds with large rocks strewn all over the place? None of us are getting any younger ya know.Allen Sparks - 2015/10/13 15:26:03 UTC
Best value wheels, IMO...
And you should probably just screw them into their positions outboard on the control tubes connector bar. We're just using them as shock absorbers so there's really no point in configuring them to allow rotation.To fit a 1.125" diameter basetube, remove the bearings and use a 1.125" hole saw to bore out the material between the bearings.
Good to know you have it nailed now. Ain't it a great feeling to have put the time in and become bulletproof.Takeo Eda - 2015/10/21 21:43:07 UTC
Silicon Valley
Brings back memories! I struggled so much with flare timing. Good work!
