2016/04/03 Tres Pinos fatality

[<BS>]

I can (and have) run across a field and steer the glider without ever touching the DT's by simply changing the direction I run.

No. You claim that bullshit, yet do it like everyone else does.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uvhzoVC1UqM
Simple Progression for Teaching Hang Gliding

1:52

As the glider's airspeed increases, students should allow it to lift up so their harness lines become tight. As with all hang gliding, it's important to encourage a light touch.

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2:46

If you teach them how to pull the glider with the harness they'll learn to steer the glider through weight shift simply by running toward their target.

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3:03

We help with the timing, but with the students' hands at shoulder level they should be pushing the downtubes forward and up until their arms are fully extended with their hands over their heads. Having them do this with open palms insures a loose grip.

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3:03

We help with the timing, but with the students' hands at shoulder level they should be pushing the downtubes forward and up until their arms are fully extended with their hands over their heads. Having them do this with open palms insures a loose grip.

I've been hearing this "light/loose grip/touch" bullshit since the beginning of time without ever questioning it while I was actually flying. But hearing it emphasized twice here in this video of Ryan's in which EVERYTHING he says is totally useless at best or totally lethally backwards at worst...

When was the last time you read a:
- fatality report which discussed the victim's long history of tight grip related incidents at altitude and minor launch and landing crashes?
- post by a new pilot talking about the problems he was having related to his tight grip and efforts to deal with the issue?
- announcement of a light grip clinic the first Saturday in April to help new pilots properly prep for the upcoming season?
- public expression of the gratitude of a new pilot for his ace instructor reminding him to always maintain a light grip?

This is pure unadulterated bullshit. Yeah, if you see a Day One, Flight One student standing at he top of the hill with a death grip on the bar the chances of a positive outcome are not gonna be great. He's also gonna have a higher than normal heartbeat. So why not:

As with all hang gliding, it's important to encourage a normal heartbeat.

too or instead? There is virtually no one in hang gliding who's ever had a bad afternoon when the critical moment wasn't immediately preceded by a dramatically increased heartbeat. Normal pulse, no crash. The logic and solution are inescapably obvious.

The problem is that the student is scared and you don't solve it by addressing a symptom. "You won't get anywhere recovering from your chickenpox until you decide to stop producing those nasty red spots all over your skin. Let me know when you're willing to cooperate with me. Now if you'll excuse me I have other patients waiting."

There is no cure for chickenpox but the cure for a tight grip - if there's gonna be one - is to move the student down the hill, back down to flat ground if necessary.

4:44

Remember to train your students only in appropriate conditions, and don't forget the priorities of a hang gliding instructor: safety, fun, and learning - in that order.

This guy:

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who's your only example of a first training hill flight has very obviously in no fuckin' way been trained/prepared for flying a hang glider, is almost certainly worse off than he would’ve been with no training whatsoever, isn't having fun. The solution to that situation is not to remind him to maintain a light grip.

Similar useful advice from Industry skygods:

http://www.questairforce.com/aero.html
Quest Air Aerotow FAQ

IMPORTANT - It should never be assumed that the weak link will break in a lockout.
ALWAYS RELEASE THE TOWLINE before there is a problem.

If conditions have deteriorated to the point at which it's unsafe to land then don't land. The LZ will still be there tomorrow.

For several years when I started flying the local ridges after leaving the dunes my grip tended to be a little tighter than it needed to be because I was a little acrophobic. The only problem with that was that my flying was more tiring and I'd feel stiffer the next day. It was NEVER the slightest control or safety issue. The problem disappeared as I acclimated and started understanding just how brutally overstrength my bird was.

That process COULD have been accelerated by a good instructor - if such an individual actually existed in hang gliding - but telling me how important it was to maintain a light grip wouldn't have accomplished a whole lot.
- "Are you maintaining a tighter grip than you need?"
- "Yeah. Probably."
- "You're scared. You don't need to be. Let's talk about what it is that's scaring you."

An approach like that would very likely have helped. Now that I think about it... That's the conversation I had with myself that got me to where I needed to be.

Most of the "thought" process behind this "light grip" bullshit is that you can't hear the glider talking to you through your hands if you're clamped down three times as hard as you need to be, can't be getting that feedback, picking up on the subtleties of what's going on with the glider. Try this experiment...
- Take a competent Four level flyer and cut his hands off above the wrists with a light saber.
- Fit him with a pair of Luke Skywalker bionic replacements.
- Send him back up with the grip set to 0.8 aluminum crush level.

He's gonna be thermalling up indistinguishably with the rest of the swarm.

Fuckin' control bar doesn't TELL YOU anything any more than a steering wheel or bicycle handlebars do. It's the tool you use to pull in, push out, torque left/right to keep/get the glider doing what you want/need it to. And you can detect bar pressure just as easily with a death grip as effectively as you can detect rope tension when you're maintaining a death grip while starting to lose a tug-of-war contest.

Remember back in the early Eighties when we decided full-face helmets would be a good idea? But we weren't gonna be able to hear the wind noise as well so we were gonna stall at a rate increase of thirty percent. (Stalls were still considered to be bad things back then.) Solution... Cut one inch diameter holes in the shell at ears positions - the ubiquitous Uvex helmets of the day. Great. Three hours of loud white noise to enhance one's flying experience for the day. Big help with radio communications as a bonus. I glued rubber disks over mine and lived with all the extra stalls I had as a consequence.

Notice, as Brian just pointed out in the previous post...

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...that Ryan's least lightest grips coincide with the moments when Ryan least needs a grip - when he's steering the glider by simply keeping running straight towards his target, pulling the glider with his harness, thus steering it through weight shift alone.

Yeah Ryan. Everybody's great with a light grip as long as the glider's already doing what you want it to anyway. It's just when reality rears its ugly head and...

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...knocks you on your fuckin' ear that you need to apply all the muscle you can muster and a grip to match.

"Shit! That thermal just spun be back towards that rock pile to the left of launch. Must remain calm! Must maintain a light grip at all cost! This is where the outcome most depends on my expert training!"

Bill Bryden - 2000/02

Dennis Pagen informed me several years ago about an aerotow lockout that he experienced. One moment he was correcting a bit of alignment with the tug and the next moment he was nearly upside down. He was stunned at the rapidity. I have heard similar stories from two other aerotow pilots.

Grips probably weren't adequately loose.

This "light/loose grip/touch" crap is emblematic of the u$hPa / Industry campaign to discount the importance of hands on the basetube in glider control. For:

- launch leave the hands on the control tubes for a minimum of five seconds after clearing the ramp.

- landing put your hands at shoulder or ear height where you can't control the glider at a minimum of two hundred feet or the beginning of final - whichever comes first. And remember to let go and ball up before you crash.

- towing always fly with the release actuator within easy reach. Releases which allow you to blow tow with both hands on the basetube are all extremely dangerous 'cause they're complex and have extremely short track records.

Back in Stone Age when sanity stood at least a snowball's chance in hell:

Manned Kiting
The Basic Handbook of Tow Launched Hang Gliding
Daniel F. Poynter
1974

"A bad flyer won't hurt a pin man but a bad pin man can kill a flyer." - Bill Bennett
"Never take your hands off the bar." - Tom Peghiny
"The greatest dangers are a rope break or a premature release." - Richard Johnson

Every one of those blindingly obvious common sense foundations has been brutally suppressed and contradicted. And remember... THIS:

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is as close as a hand ever gets to a basetube in this video. Compare/Contrast with the ideal:

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Works great for S-turning your way across the field from the fence to the upwind treeline using weight shift alone.

1. Never put a hand anywhere near the basetube for any reason.

2. Grip the control tubes if you really must but...

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...use only the very lightest of touches as necessary to keep the glider moving in a straight line.

3. Ideally don't touch anything with either hand and run the glider straight for foot launch and let the center-of-mass bridle pull you under the high wing for airborne towing for autocorrecting weight shift control.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uvhzoVC1UqM
Simple Progression for Teaching Hang Gliding

Something I should've picked up on before...

3:03

We help with the timing, but with the students' hands at shoulder level they should be pushing the downtubes forward and up until their arms are fully extended with their hands over their heads. Having them do this with open palms insures a loose grip.

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We help with the timing...

That's said in the context of:

2:55

Once students are proficient at picking up and running with the glider while controlling pitch it's time to introduce the flare.

3:03

We help with the timing, but with the students' hands at shoulder level they should be pushing the downtubes forward and up until their arms are fully extended with their hands over their heads. Having them do this with open palms insures a loose grip.

3:23

With our students well prepared, it's time to take them to the slope and give them a taste of flight.

They're still down on the flats of the Ellenville Happy Acres putting green, haven't been NEAR the fuckin...

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...training bump yet. They're running the glider, practicing pulling it by their harnesses and correcting roll by weight shift without using their hands - and they still get help with flare timing.

Somebody please explain to me how you blow flare timing while propelling the glider forward.
- running full tilt in no wind
- running with all the power you can muster or standing still in 25
- standing still in zero

Is there some way you can punch too early and send the glider rocketing up into a whipstall? Kinda wish there were 'cause that would mean you could get in some decent training hill flights without the training hill.

If you're late on your timing is that gonna leave you running behind the glider headed for a power whack and broken arm?

Tell me how it's possible to have anything other than perfect flare timing when you're propelling or not propelling the glider into the wind or lack thereof on the flats.

Flare timing is used for stunt landings when the glider's in a skim bleeding off airspeed. I guess you could simulate a late flare by running up to full speed, slowing down, getting behind the glider, pushing out weakly - but I can think of lotsa better things you could be learning before getting properly airborne. A hook-in check comes to immediate mind.

[Steve Davy]

2009/11/21 at McCLure was the first, and only time I had the bar ripped out of my hands in a bit of nasty air. That incident sure cured me of that loose grip in strong air bullshit.

[Tad Eareckson]

Your grip wasn't loose enough.

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=31052
Poll on weaklinks

Jim Rooney - 2013/03/05 21:40:02 UTC

You want MORE.
I want you to have less.
This is the fundamental disagreement.
You're afraid of breaking off with a high AOA? Good... tow with a WEAKER weaklink... you won't be able to achieve a high AOA. Problem solved.

If it had been adequately loose you'd have felt the glider cuing you that the bar was about to be ripped out of your hands and you'd have had adequate time to go into death grip mode. Problem solved.

[<BS>]

This old thread has lots of correlations.
http://ushawks.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=3121
Fatal hang gliding accident

Tad,

That wouldn't have happened if he had been made to go through the paces doing turns around traffic cones at a hill or off of scooter tow.

Even if he had done those from the downtubes? This is exactly what they do out at Lookout (well, turning toward cones instead of around). I'm just trying to understand your position. I'd still like an answer to

Why would it matter whether students fly prone in their training if it's so easy to adjust to flying prone if they're properly trained to fly from the downtubes?

You've been critical of schools waiting before having their students fly prone.

It apparently didn't register very well for John Seward.

Because he didn't shift his weight (we're speculating).

I'd be inclined to teach students that it's differential wire tension that controls the glider and that weight shift is the way it's effected.

Do you think telling that to John would have helped him at all? The purpose of telling someone to 'lead with your feet' is to get them to effectively shift their weight, which they need to do regardless of the theory.

I think the best way to teach control inputs is what Bob said:

The simplest example is to just hang from a glider on the ground with a mirror to show the deflection of the hang straps as the pilot moves.

When I was at Lookout I effectively did just that, but it was somewhat accidental. Sometimes their equipment trailer, which contains the TV they use to play intro videos at the LZ, is stationed with the TV facing the simulator on that end of the field. I learned a great deal by hanging in the simulator, watching my reflection in the black screen, and seeing what caused my carabiner to move the most. I think seeing that is more effective than anything you could tell the student.

As for the theory...

You will be pulled / Your weight will be shifted to the left.

Which way will the glider roll?

Seems to me like if anything it would actually roll to the ri...oh. Wow. Light bulb. OK, let me see if I get this...

Last year I went to a clinic in Utah hosted by Ryan Voight. Ryan's into aerial photography and on a down day we were discussing camera mounts. He had a mount that attached to the base tube and extended out a ways in front of the pilot pointing aft. He said you didn't have to counterweight it because as far as the glider was concerned all the weight was on the base tube where the mount attached. I wasn't sure about that and Ryan isn't the most trustworthy source with regards to physics but he apparently had experimental verification that was the case so I went with it. It never occurred to me to apply that same principle to our hang points.

It's well known that if you put a heavy camera on a leading edge out near a wingtip it will cause a roll tendency. If the camera was in the same position but mounted to a beam attached to the keel at the hang point instead of the leading edge it would not (I think). If that's the case, the actual shifting of weight that occurs in a roll can't be the cause of the roll because the pilot is still attached to the same point on the glider. For a true weight shift roll to occur the hang point would have to move laterally.

I never really understood why a tow rope pulling a pilot didn't cause a control input in the direction of the pull but just went with it...now it makes a lot more sense. So much for Pagen's

When you move your body to the side, your weight increases the load on one wing and decreases it on the other wing. This makes the more heavily loaded wing move down to bank the glider.

Even if I accept that shifting weight isn't responsible for a glider's response, there are still some things I'm not clear about. The control frame is fixed to the keel...what causes the left wire in your example to tighten? What causes the slop transference? If the roll is caused entirely by wing warping, how does differential wire tension effect pitch changes (which, to my knowledge, are not caused by wing warping)?

By the way, this is the best illustration of wing warping I've come across:
http://ozreport.com/images/redheaddune/DSCF1906.JPG

I'd love to be able to capture it on video but it's not practical to mount a camera that can capture a glider's entire span.

As can be seen, this sideways force tends to pull the pilot over to the correct side to make the glider turn naturally in the proper direction.

Wow. I can't believe he said that. Regardless, we all know gliders tow better from the pilot than just the glider. Why is that?

I don't know this construction.

Neither do I. Here's the best explanation I've found:

Unlike flexes, the ATOS control frame is essentually non-structural. The control frame is just the "handle bar" for the glider. On it's carbon control frame gliders, AIR was able to incorporate the spoileron control wires into the control frame stabilization system, thus eliminating a set of wires. The ATOS still has rear wires, but the glider has 1/3 fewer wires than topless flexwings.

The stuff in the parentheses will cause the glider to yaw adversely but the sweep will take care of that problem for you.

Interestingly, spoilers create drag, so rigids that use them to roll supposedly don't suffer from adverse yaw.

At any rate, big thanks for the explanations. Even after a year you are still shattering the understanding of hang gliding concepts I've learned through instruction. Got any more bombs you haven't dropped yet?

Bob, thanks for your explanation as well. I'm getting closer.

Zack

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=34243
Fatal HG crash in Tres Pinos CA 4-3-2016

Ryan Voight - 2016/04/17 04:48:42 UTC

Also, just briefly touching on the whole torque/what makes a glider turn thing... I'll try to be kind and say that I find it most unlikely that our gliders turn because of the minimal rolling torque pressures we are applying through the control frame. I will also present evidence of that silliness- Follow the forces! To move your weight left, you are pushing the base bar to the right. The base bar isn't able to go to the right, primarily because of the left side wire. Tension on that wire might be increased, but the cross-bar/leading-edge junction isn't pulled toward the corner bracket, primarily because of the upper side wire running to the kingpost. Possibly tension on that is increased, but the top of the kingpost isn't able to move toward the left cross-bar/leading-edge junction because of the upper right flying wire. Keep going in your mind, until you get back to the base bar... (it's a closed system folks).

Instead, what causes a glider to roll is an imbalance in aerodynamic forces. When hanging centered and neutral, the center of gravity (the point at which gravity acts on the pilot/aircraft as a single combined unit) is in alignment with the center of lift. Move your body to the left, and now gravity is acting more on the left, while lift is now acting to the right of where gravity is acting. YES, THAT IS ROLL TORQUE, TOO. But it's caused by aerodynamic forces, not us muscling the glider to roll around us!

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=34277
"evidence of that silliness"

Tormod Helgesen - 2016/04/19 09:06:14 UTC

I see torque mentioned as a means of controlling a hangglider. It's true that while you're shifting your weight you're putting a force/torque into the system. BUT that force is only for a split second AND it's nulled by the force you use to stop that motion. (Newtons 3rd, for any force there is an equal and opposite force.) Remember you're suspended from the center of the glider with a flexible strap so you don't have leverage to move the controlbar, you're only able to move your body relative to the bar.

So for all practical purposes, the only pilot induced force controlling a hangglider is weight-shift.

Tormod Helgesen - 2016/04/20 06:05:53 UTC

No, because of Newtons third law again. The force you're applying to the control bar is opposed by an increase in the tension in the hang strap so the net leverage is zero. The weight has shifted though.

Tormod Helgesen - 2016/04/20 20:33:36 UTC

Brian scharp: Please show a video of you lifting yourself by your hair. It's basicly what you're advocating here.

Tormod Helgesen - 2016/04/21 05:52:50 UTC

At least you understand that lifting yourself by your own hair is impossible, that's a beginning.

Tormod Helgesen - 2016/04/22 09:16:19 UTC

Give up! For you own sake.

I think the problem is that your opponents believe that you need leverage to steer the hangglider. They can't grasp the fact that while airborne you're part of a closed system so that whatever force you use to move your body is opposed by an equal force. To produce any leverage (or torque) you'll have to fix the harness to the bottombar and rotate your body inside the harness, mimicking an engine and propeller. To add to the confusion someone is mixing in towing which is a totally different thing as it's a powered system. I think you've encountered a unsolvable case of the Donning-Kruger syndrome as your opponents simply refuses to educate themselves.

Tormod Helgesen - 2016/04/26 20:25:56 UTC

Maybe I'm just plain stupid because I don't understand how one can excert any torgue on the controlbar while not in contact with terra firma? Except for that brief moment you actually start a movment (which is cancelled out when you stop moving).

Care to explain? Mr Scharp, aeroexperiments?

Tormod Helgesen - 2016/04/27 05:31:05 UTC

That's the force that returns your body to the center position but that force is opposed by the added tension in the hangstrap. You need a fixed point outside of the glider/pilot system to put any torque into the gliders controlbar, at least that's what I've learnt.

For you Jack Show dickheads who are unable to grasp the concept of roll control torque / differential wire tension 'cause you can't SEE any glider components MOVING...

One thing we can all agree on...

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=13359
Today was a bad day!

Mike Bomstad - 2009/08/26 04:21:15

The harness is part of the aircraft... end of story.

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=30971
Zach Marzec

Kinsley Sykes - 2013/02/17 16:04:16 UTC

Unlike sailplanes, the pilot is an integral part of the tow system.

The pilot's part of the fuckin' aircraft, right? You can't replace him with a little radio or computer controlled servo the way you can with all conventional fixed wing aircraft? Just like there's no such thing as a radio controlled surfboard?

http://ozreport.com/images/redheaddune/DSCF1906.JPG


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That two hundred pound differential wire tensioning actuator suspended from the keel MOVES - within the "closed system". It torques left and right and the loading and distortion of the wings alter in sync. The wings are asymmetrically loaded and roll increases for as long as the input is held. No muscle, no torque, no asymmetrical loading, no more aileron effect.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=34243
Fatal HG crash in Tres Pinos CA 4-3-2016

Andrew Vernon - 2016/08/16 19:04:58 UTC
Bay Area

it's been months...

Close to four and a half.

...no word?

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=25656
The young girl who died hang gliding solo

Jim Rooney - 2012/03/06 18:34:14 UTC

ND's onto it.

No one ever wants to wait for the accident investigation... they want to know "NOW DAMNIT!" and there's always a lot of self-serving arguments surrounding it.

And it's always the same.
The same damn arguments get drug up every time. And they're all just as pointless every time.

We have a system in place.
It works.
Let it work.

Our procedures are well established at this point in time and there are no gaping hidden holes that need to be addressed immediately.

RR asked what the status was.
ND's provided the answer (thank you).

Please take a deep breath. And wait.
Accident investigations involving fatalities take a long time. And by long, I mean they can take years.
(yes, years, I'm not kidding)

The sky is not falling.

I read through that whole thread trying to find out what happened. Nothing but a whole lot of speculation and pissing contests.

And Ryan Instant-Hands-Free-Release Voight very definitively lost his pissing contest.

ziggyc - 2016/08/18 22:08:22 UTC
Woodland Hills

Tragedy at Tres Pinos April 3rd, 2016

There's been no new information because everyone involved has turned chicken...

Nobody TURNED anything. These motherfuckers were all chickenshit scum at birth.

...and is scared to talk about it...

With the most excellent of reasons.

...even if it may help improve safety in some way.

Since when has Mission EVER been the slightest bit interested in improving safety in ANY way?

Several things about the horrible tragedy on April 3rd at Tres Pinos came to light in the past few months. First and foremost, there has been zero investigation.

Duh.

As in NO ONE called the police.

Fuck, it was just a hang gliding fatality. Somebody else dying doing what she loved. Get over it.

There is no police report. NO ONE called the sheriff department. There is no sheriff's report. They have only begun to investigate a couple weeks ago after we called them on it. In what seems to be a vicious turn of events, the scene was very quickly cleared so as to make it look like nothing had happened.

What? Did something happen?

And the absolute worst black eye to the entire hang gliding group, which is actually quite the cool pastime ( I hold nothing gainst individual hang gliders doing their thing, looking after each other, taming the skies, etc.)...

It's a dickhead magnet and you get what you'd predict. Wish I'd understood that three dozen years ago.

...is that their very own USHPA is doing nothing in the way of investigating this.

Go to:
http://www.ushpa.org/page/fatalities

Nobody's died as a consequence of the suffering of fatal injuries for five days shy of a year now. And:

2015/08/23
Rafael Lavin (69), an Advanced (H4) pilot and USHPA member since 1993, suffered fatal injuries during a flight at Fort Funston in San Francisco, CA. The circumstances surrounding the incident are currently still under investigation.

2015/08/23
Craig Pirazzi (56), an Advanced (H4) pilot and USHPA member since 1986, suffered fatal injuries during a flight at Indian Creek near Moab, UT. The circumstances surrounding the incident are currently still under investigation.

The circumstances surrounding those incidents are currently still under investigation.

Mitch Shipley...

...is a sleazy u$hPa operative who's sole function is to suppress whatever evidence and information he can and misrepresent whatever evidence and information he can't.

...has...

...yet again...

...proven slow, resistant, and ultimately useless.

Not the least bit ultimately useless to u$hPa and its objectives.

He's had over 30 days, well over 30 days (which is by far a reasonable amount of time) to complete an investigation. Yet he refuses to do so.

He's just trying to be THOROUGH, motherfucker. Accident investigations involving fatalities take a long time. And by long, I mean they can take years. (Yes, years, I'm not kidding.)

He blames it all on not having the time or resources to do it, which is total BS.

Total BS. Time and resources ain't limitless, ya know. If you wanted to devote more time and resources to preparing and releasing you'd hafta diminish the time and resources you devote to suppression and misrepresentation.

That's pretty obvious code for the fact that he's covering up some pattern of mistakes on the part of Mission Soaring Center.

Along with everything else he's ever been involved in.

And USHPA is also protecting the manufacturers of the safety equipment which failed Nancy when she most needed it.

And here's an extinct major u$hPa operative documenting the quality of the "safety equipment" on which Nancy was locked out and slammed in:

http://www.ushawks.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=607
Understanding Tow Releases

Peter Birren - 2011/08/29 18:40:45 UTC

In my 1000+ tows, I've had to use my hook knife three times... the first was on a pulley tow when an old 2-string release didn't work. Sure did need that hook knife... and RIGHT NOW! Though it worked fine and I lost the bridle and release, it gave me the inspiration to come up with the Linknife.

...

Tad, you ignorant slut, if you read further than your selective snipping reaches to somehow prove a point, you would have read how this works. And, pray tell, what is the title of that page? Could it be "opinion"? as in a thought/idea. Surprising, isn't it, that I've heard from a couple of instructors (both with more credibility in their little fingers than you have in your self-inflated ego) who have been using similar systems for years to prevent hazardous scenarios from happening... and it works. But you'll never consider what actually works, just your own concepts of reality.

Peter Birren - 2011/09/18 22:27:52 UTC

Because at the top of tow, my headset screwed up and I couldn't tell the driver to stop, so she kept driving and started pulling me down, increasing tension to the point that the pin wouldn't pull.

Though it worked fine and I lost the bridle and release, it gave me the inspiration to come up with the Linknife.

And further documentation of the performance of Mission's state-of-the-art two-string release:

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=30306
Non-fatal crash in Tres Pinos, CA

Scott Howard - 2014/11/06 16:06:31 UTC

...the best i can do for now is a clip of the day b4 when i told the instructor about release problem. (still released by normal method but had to yank 3 times on release to get it to release.)

at Mission.

There are no do-overs when you're in the air.

Depends a lot on whether or not...

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...you can get a parachute out in time.

Here's what happened. A seemingly simple towing exercise at Tres Pinos went horribly wrong.

No. If it was SIMPLE nothing could POSSIBLY have gone wrong.

The pilot, Nancy Tachibana...

FINALLY! We have a last name!

...who had an H1 rating and nearly 30 tows over the past few months, was well versed in the activity...

Well versed in MISSION's version of the activity. Don't recall her having registered at Kite Strings in order to discuss another perspective.

....and the how and when to use the quick...

...and very easily reachable...

...release.

Which only requires three pulls to get it to work. WAY better than the Lockout Mountain Flight Park...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNq1WKy0EqE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNq1WKy0EqE
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...offering.

There are substantial videos that show she was not only comfortable doing this, but she new what to do, and when to do it.

1. Where?

2. There are substantial videos showing everybody and his fuckin' dog being comfortable with easily reachable Industry Standard shit...

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...and knowing what to do and when to do it whenever things are going just fine. And I don't know how many more tons of examples we need to provide of it all being totally useless at best on all the occasions when shit is hitting fans - Hang Zero through Five.

Yet, somehow, on her fourth tow on that day (she had three successful tows on April 3rd, that very same day) through a failure in the quick release system...

A quick release system that's neither quick nor a system and ceases to be a release under any kind of load.

...and it's backup...

Oh. The Birrenator didn't work either? Oh well, Peter's still got it documented at:
http://www.birrendesign.com/LKOpinions.html

...she plummeted 300 plus feet to the ground...

What? No hook knife?

...smacked her head (yes she was wearing a helmet...

Obviously a salad bowl on a string.

...and protective safety gear), and was brain dead instantly.

Doesn't sound like her backup loop or locking carabiner did her much good.

How 'bout the guillotine?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ifQk5L3Ux7U
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ifQk5L3Ux7U

Surely mission installed a guillotine in their system right after the...

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...2013/06/15 Lin Lyons fiasco.

Do you have any idea what it's like to "get the call" from frantic doctors and nurses, drive your ass off for hours hoping against hope, then arriving to find your loved one brain dead and being kept alive by machines? DO you??

Yeah. Not that specific scenario but I know what it feels like.

I will NEVER forget. And I will make sure NO ONE forgets.

I don't think you know what you're up against. Read the non public u$hPa report on Arys Moorhead - a year and a week prior to Nancy - that I've made public at:

http://www.kitestrings.org/post7910.html#p7910

...and see how well he's identified much paper he gets and look at the Jack and Davis Shows to get a gauge of how much in the way of a flying fuck the hang glider community really gives.

The death of a loved one should not be reduced to a pissing contest.

No. It should be reduced to a discussion of what's TYPICAL and how we need better efforts in risk management.

Ever. The fact is, there's a split amongst the hang gliding community over whether this is a "safe" activity for an H1 pilot or not.

The way Mission does things it's not safe for ANYONE.

Hey, nothing in the air is safe. Or, rather, it's as safe as we are willing to make for ourselves and for each other.

There's a limit to how safe hang glider towing can be made. We CAN make it safer than the drives to or from the tow site but there's no fuckin' way u$hPa and its operatives will allow any movement in that direction. Can you imagine what would happen to their visibility as a liability target if Mission ordered a shipment of a few dozen Kaluzhin releases at this point?

The "story" is that Nancy may have turned away from the line without disconnecting, which directly led to her being killed.

'Cause from that point on she'd have needed BOTH hands to fly the glider.

Well, this is not the entire truth. A more likely and accurate story goes like this: Nancy was a student who aspired to hang glide. She had taken many lessons and gone through all the preliminary trainings through at least 2 or 3...

...useless, stupid, dangerous but...

...different instructional groups, the last...

...and least...

...of which was Mission Soaring Center. She gained her H1 rating, and was so proud. She was having so much fun. And she also knew the risks...

If she actually did she'd have never allowed herself to be put into that situation.

...that actually added to the fun (as it does for many of you.)

Then she got what she paid for, had a fantastic experience on her last flight, and did the gene pool a favor.

From what I've been told, and seen in videos, there are two safety releases in a tow.

Two more than I've ever seen in any Mission video.

One of them is operated by the pilot.

Probably thought she could fix a bad thing and didn't wanna start over.

Should that safety release...

What the fuck do you mean by a "SAFETY release"? Is this sailplane dude:

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operating his SAFETY release? As opposed to what other kind of release? If somebody runs a red as you're starting through an intersection do you step of your SAFETY brakes? A release is part of a glider's control system. We know what it's supposed to do and we don't need a redundant adjective connected to it.

...fail, then there is a backup which is supposed to be a fail safe.

According to whom? Has anybody ever done any simulations to provide the slightest evidence that this is fail safe? Or did some total fucking asshole(s)...

http://ozreport.com/9.098
The thin 1500 pound aerotow bridle

Davis Straub - 2005/05/03

Bob Lane said that Quest Air sold over 40 of their bridles (and Bob sold 15 or 20) during the Nationals. The Quest Air bridles use thicker Spectra and are designed not to whip around and accidentally tie themselves to the carabineer. Bob says his bridles will not do this either.

It is great to see these safer, simpler, and easy to use aerotow bridles becoming popular.

...just declare them the to be fail safe?

Neither of these releases functioned on Nancy's fourth flight on April 3rd, 2016. They had not been thoroughly checked, just presumed to be working.

Sound familiar...

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...people of varying ages?

That's the job not only of the pilot, but also, more importantly, the job of the instructor, who is the last line of protection for his students.

The same instructor who outfitted him with the easily reachable two-string release and fail safe Birrenator backup?

He failed. He allowed the equipment to fail.

How can it fail if it was never designed to work in the first place?

And believe me, he...

Pat - is our understanding.

...feels badly about it I have no doubt.

He must. Why else would he have spent these past months in total lockdown mode?

I feel tons worse. And so does Nancy's mother. So do Nancy's siblings. So do the multitudes of her friends who still cry wondering why she is no longer with us.

None of whom have come ever to Kite Strings to get understandings of the incident and/or done anyhing to reduce the likelihood of this happening to somebody else.

The instructional group, Mission Soaring Center used faulty, unchecked equipment, and ended up killing a perfectly talented and well-taught pilot.

Yes...

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-bRrpHNa68iY/UQ6Pv9gRZyI/AAAAAAAAjTg/Hc22bx5122Q/s2048/20943781_BG1.jpg


Well taught.

And now they and the USHPA continue to cover it up. Witnesses who were actually there, and there were at least 4 or 5 who saw what happened, have remained mum (or have been instructed to not say anything) about the whole incident.

Big fuckin' surprise.

It should trouble you, as it does me, that a community of hang gliders, that are supposed to have some kind of integrity and care about each other in the air...

...when push comes to shove...

...they disappear and hope a painful tragedy like this just "goes away."

And viciously attack anyone who bring it back to the forefront in an effort to have it actually addressed.

I wouldn't wish this kind of tragedy on anyone else.

There are PLENTY of more than deserving motherfuckers in this sport. If Jim Keen-Intellect Rooney had bought it in place of Zack Marzec on 2013/02/02 I'd still be barely able to contain my joy.

But I do hope that the community pulls together and talks about this, aims the sharp finger of responsibility (and blame), and fixes the problem: 1) Using unchecked, faulty equipment, and 2) an overprotective, biased, ultimately useless home-brewed fake organization like USHPA will bring more bitter tears.

Yeah. Hang gliding people will now suddenly start developing character and decency.

More tragedies. More blemishes and bruises to what could still turn out to be a noble and fun pastime if people own up to their mistakes and truly try to protect those who need protecting.

Wouldn't start holding my breath just now if I were you.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=34243
Fatal HG crash in Tres Pinos CA 4-3-2016

Davis Straub - 2016/08/18 23:33:05 UTC

Once again I am so sorry for your loss.

I have no idea how you cope with all the sorrow for all those losses of friends, families, loved ones.

ziggyc - 2016/08/18 22:08:22 UTC

There's been no new information because everyone involved has turned chicken and is scared to talk about it...even if it may help improve safety in some way.

Can you provide any evidence that this is the case?

Absolute rubbish. Mission u$hPa ALWAYS step forward and freely and selflessly provide as much information as possible on these things so that the sport constantly moves forward, becomes safer and better for all concerned.

Witnesses are free to talk about anything that they want to.

With no fear of retaliation by anyone...

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24846
Is this a joke ?

Jim Rooney - 2011/08/25 04:55:25 UTC

Don't even get me started on Tad. That obnoxious blow hard has gotten himself banned from every flying site that he used to visit... he doesn't fly anymore... because he has no where to fly. His theories were annoying at best and downright dangerous most of the time. Good riddance.

...whatsoever.

First and foremost, there has been zero investigation.

Can you provide any evidence that this is the case?

Yeah, just 'cause after four and a half months we've gotten no acknowledgement from Mission, u$hPa that there'd been an incident of any kind doesn't mean there's been no investigation.

Mitch Shipley has proven slow, resistant, and ultimately useless. He's had over 30 days, well over 30 days (which is by far a reasonable amount of time) to complete an investigation. Yet he refuses to do so. He blames it all on not having the time or resources to do it, which is total BS.

Can you provide any evidence that this is the case? I have known Mitch for years and spoke extensively with him regarding safety and reporting requirements. He is the USHPA safety officer and he is responsible for doing investigations. For legal reasons they are extremely strict. He cannot discuss cases specifically.

1. The way Doug Hildreth did all the time over the fourteen year course of his tenure as Accident Review Committee Chairman.

2. So if the membership and public don't get to see so much as a punctuation mark's worth of report from Mitch's fine efforts then what's the point of him so much as getting out of bed, lighting up his laptop, and reading the Jack and Davis Show traffic? If Mitch had been snuffed in a pro toad inconvenience incident - à la Zack Marzec - a decade ago with no one stepping in to fill the vacuum how would anyone be any worse off?

That's pretty obvious code for the fact that he's covering up some pattern of mistakes on the part of Mission Soaring Center. And USHPA is also protecting the manufacturers of the safety equipment which failed Nancy when she most needed it.

Can you provide any evidence that this is the case? I do not find this obvious at all.

Suck my dick, Davis.

I have no evidence that USHPA protects manufacturers and have never seen it. I have no idea who built whatever equipment it is that you are referring to.

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=31052
Poll on weaklinks

Davis Straub - 2013/03/06 18:29:05 UTC

You know, after all this discussion I'm now convinced that it is a very good idea to treat the weaklink as a release, that that is exactly what we do when we have a weaklink on one side of a pro tow bridle. That that is exactly what has happened to me in a number of situations and that the whole business about a weaklink only for the glider not breaking isn't really the case nor a good idea for hang gliding.

I'm happy to have a relatively weak weaklink, and have never had a serious problem with the Greenspot 130, just an inconvenience now and then.

And she also knew the risks, that actually added to the fun (as it does for many of you.)

No, it does not add to the fun.

Sure it does. What other reason would you have for forcing everyone to fly with the shoddy crap you sell at the competitions you run?

2) an overprotective, biased, ultimately useless home-brewed fake organization like USHPA will bring more bitter tears.

Home-brewed? What are you talking about here? The USHPA is a professionally run and responsible organization that works tirelessly to improve the safety of hang gliding.

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=25321
Stop the Stupids at the USHPA BOD meeting

Mark G. Forbes - 2011/09/29 02:26:23 UTC

USHPA is not in the business of keeping pilots "safe" and it can't be. Stepping into that morass is a recipe for extinction of our association.

It is neither over protective, biased nor useless.

A hundred miles south of useless.

I do not know that interactions that you have had with the USHPA, but I would suggest that you have drawn the wrong conclusions.

Yeah, Ziggy. Everything's fine. Just listen to the sociopath and ignore everything you're actually seeing.

ziggyc - 2016/08/19 00:28:55 UTC

Absolutely there's evidence, or lack thereof. When we call the Hollister law enforcement and they have no idea there was any death at Tres Pinos, no case number, no nothing about a tragic event which is in their jurisdiction, then it's clear that something fishy is going on. So no, there has been no investigation. NONE. Mitch claims to be investigating, but he is not a credible individual, nor is USHPA a credible "organization."

I have approached several witnesses online (nicely, mind you) and received no response. That tells me someone (Mitch) got to them first and hushed them up. That's not very professional at all, if as you claim, they can talk to anyone. Cleary they can't, and are compelled not to speak out.

Mitch informs me that USHPA is a non-profit group which works using only volunteers. That screams out rag-tag and amateur. So yes, USHPA is a fake unprofessional organization that pretends to do one thing, but whose apparent goal is to obfuscate and cover-up the truth about any tragedy, no matter how severe.

Blindingly obviously naked emperor.

They have had plenty of time to complete their so-called investigation yet Mitch has done nothing. Not very trustworthy. Probably should resign and let a real safety-conscious person do the job.

u$hPa doesn't tolerate real safety-conscious individuals doing anything.

So, in response to your questions, I have done my homework over the past several months, and have compiled plenty of evidence to back up my claims that there is a major cover up going on, and who I think is responsible. Any rational, thinking individual with half a brain would draw exactly the same conclusions if they were in my shoes. Maybe even worse ones. I believe I'm being nice about it.

Don't be.

But enough is enough. USHPA needs to make their investigation public. Oh, that's right,...they're afraid to publicize anything about their investigations. It might shine a light into that dark place and reveal them to be that sham organization.

Not sustainable. Total implosion.

ziggyc - 2016/08/19 00:40:14 UTC

I should add that we called authorities in Hollister, San Benito County, Monterey County. All the local law enforcement and even fire departments. The only info that any of these outfits had was that there was a paramedic dispatched. That they did not conduct an investigation. Also we have the Coroner's report from Monterey County And THEY even had the cause of death wrong. They listed her activity as paragliding, which is not quite accurate.

Also, I appreciate your...

...fake...

...sympathy and am not intending to throw real heartfelt sympathy...

...back at you in a vindictive way. I do appreciate it.

I have read a lot, made a lot of phone calls, been in touch with all the major players that I am calling out. Actually received correspondence which I won't share online for obvious reasons. but I DO know what I'm talking about.

My accusations about the USHPA may seem irrational to someone who may be on the inside, or who has closer ties than I do. SO I will stand back and say that I am making accusations about USHPA. But I am making them based on my first-hand experience with them. Just as you defend them based on your first-hand experience.

Davis defends them because he is them.

Davis Straub - 2016/08/19 01:00:46 UTC

The USHPA has a professional staff. And a professional office. It would appear that you have not investigated the USHPA enough to be aware of this.

Maybe we can hire an investigator to find out exactly what it is that the professional staff and office actually does.

Like many if not all amateur sports organizations, it has a volunteer BOD and relies on volunteers for many of its functions. Mitch is a volunteer.

But apparently too overwhelmed to actually report on any actual fatalities.

Mitch's investigations are secret and are required to be so for legal reasons.

Yeah, it would be a serious violation of US Constitutional laws if Mitch's investigations weren't secret.

If you have issues with that I suggest taking it up with the USHPA lawyer.

http://recreationrrg.com/rrrg-governance
Board and Governance | Recreation Risk Retention Group

Timothy Herr
Secretary and Risk Management Officer
Tim Herr is a practicing attorney in California and serves as corporate counsel for USHPA.

You have not presented any evidence of any of your claims so I can not take any of them as valid given your personal interest in the matter.

Fuck no! It would be totally insane to take as valid any claims of any individual who has a personal interest in a matter. Gotta go with u$hPa and their corporate interests in matters.

I am not a USHPA volunteer nor a member of their BOD, so I am not on the inside, so to speak.

Nah, Davis certainly isn't any kind of insider, so to speak.

You have made a series of assumptions, which you admit to, which may or may not be the case. It is my understanding that witnesses are free to express themselves. I've had experience with this and this has been the case with any accident that I have been involved with as a witness.

And as a perpetrator. His last kill was just a day shy of seven weeks after Mission's.

Again you have made a series of assumptions and unprofessional conclusions...

Yeah Ziggy. You can't make any conclusions unless you're a professional conclusion maker. Fuck off.

...which are not merited by the evidence presented especially with regard to the USHPA.

Please don't take any offense at any of this, Ziggy. This is just Davis's way of telling you to go fuck yourself.
Hey Davis... Go fuck yourself.

No, you are not being nice about it at all.

Yeah. You should learn to be nice. Like Davis.

Again, you are apparently not aware at all of the restrictions that they are required to work under when an investigation is carried out.

1. Apparently, he is.
2. Yeah. REQUIRED to work under.

http://airs.ushpa.aero/

Yeah Ziggy, you can begin a report there.

http://www.ushpa.org/page/accident-analysis[/img]

Really amazing a situation like Nancy Tachibana could develop at a high class operation like Mission with great resources like those so readily available.

Matt Christensen - 2016/08/19 05:34:45 UTC

I have always gotten a kick out of the knuckleheads that sit around taking pot shots at USHPA, that actually have no real insight into what the organization actually does for our community.

Like providing cover for total dickheads such as yourself.

He's responding to Richard Palmon. Seven consecutive, uninterrupted, short rapid fire posts - nothing worth quoting.

Tormod's response below:

Tormod Helgesen - 2016/08/19 05:42:22 UTC

Wtf?

Sums it up reasonably well.

Of course it is far from perfect, but it has certainly done more for the good of our sport than the collective boobs that have done nothing more than hammer keys on a forum.

Yeah, u$hPa's been doing so much more actual good hammering keys on their website and producing total crap like our last two fatality reports:

2015/08/23
Rafael Lavin (69), an Advanced (H4) pilot and USHPA member since 1993, suffered fatal injuries during a flight at Fort Funston in San Francisco, CA. The circumstances surrounding the incident are currently still under investigation.

2015/08/23
Craig Pirazzi (56), an Advanced (H4) pilot and USHPA member since 1986, suffered fatal injuries during a flight at Indian Creek near Moab, UT. The circumstances surrounding the incident are currently still under investigation.

Didn't you find those useful? The key to not being killed on a hang glider is to avoid suffering fatal injuries. Nancy obviously hadn't done her assigned reading very well.

As good or bad as our organization is, only a moron would think we are better off without it.

Yeah, make sure you convey to Nancy's family how much worse off they'd be right now if it weren't for u$hPa.

It would be great if some of the trolls that take sport in battering USHPA actually demonstrated a working knowledge of the function and process of this organization at any time during their rants.

Why would anyone batter the organization who DIDN'T have a working knowledge of its function and process?

I will not attempt to do that here...

Big fuckin' surprise.

...but I will reiterate one point that has already been made; it is a volunteer organization.

Great volunteers like Mitchell N. Shipley - working tirelessly to produce these valuable reports that nobody's ever permitted to see. (Ever hear u$hPa calling for more volunteers to assist Mitch in his "accident" "investigations"?)

If you don't like something...

What's not to like?

...get involved and work toward the change that you believe is necessary.

That's what I do over here, you miserable little Establishment cocksucker.

Caution though, as this will eat into troll time and reduce the amount of irrational, unsubstantiated, conspiracy babble that you will be able to spew here.

And when you get used to sucking u$hPa dick the way Matt has you'll lose the desire to spew irrational, unsubstantiated, conspiracy babble there. You'll start sounding exactly like Davis - pseudo intellectual crap oozing with fake profundity and totally devoid of any actual substance.

As far as the personal attacks that have been made against Mitch, you clearly got your feelings hurt and are responding in the most logical way, here on a public forum like a big boy....lol Anyone other than one of your fellow anti-USHPA renegades will see that blather for what it is.

Why should there be any anti-USHPA renegades? Monopoly control of US hang gliding, decades of tireless work protecting itself from an hint of accountability... What's not to like?

It's easy to sit on the sidelines and be critical. Get in the game, get educated and attempt to actually do something positive for our community and then your words will have some credibility.

Fuck your community.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=34243
Fatal HG crash in Tres Pinos CA 4-3-2016

Richard Palmon - 2016/08/19 14:57:52 UTC

Get in the game? Knucklehead! I've been trying to open new training sites for the last 20 years. Locating them is a job and gas money in itself. Without a good policy to reduce landowners fears or worries of lawsuits. I am now waiting to see if this new policy that the ushpa has put together. Will satisfy landowners needs? If not! I'm done with all of this BS. From watching shitty instruction happen and injuries or broken equipment. The politics of arrogant know it all pricks!

Careful. Ryan's on this thread. Ya don't wanna offend him too much.

Big shops getting a pass (all of the time) by the ushpa when they kill or hurt people!

Goddam fuckin' right. Not to mention meetheads like Davis - although there's not much of a distinction to be made.

And dealing with fighting a current of stupidity! RUN! FLARE! Thanks Dennis Pagen...you have single handedly dumbed down our sport for years and years to come.

I think I've done a pretty good job of dealing with the motherfucker over here.

Erik Boehm - 2016/08/19 15:18:34 UTC

This is a thread about a fatal accident, I suggest you take criticism of denis pagen...

I suggest you learn to write at grade school level competency or shut the fuck up.

...or local politics....

Both TOTALLY and EXTREMELY relevant.

...to another thread unless you have specific non-speculative information that is linked to it.

And you know he doesn't have any NON-SPECULATIVE information because of the spectacular success Mission and u$hPa have had in suppressing all of the actual reporting on this incident.

I'm sure "Hold it hold it hold it FLARE" and "Run, Flare" have nothing to do with this towing accident.

But the kinda total crap that Dennis and Ryan publish, preach, teach have EVERYTHING to do with this towing "accident".

Richard Palmon- 2016/08/19 15:25:27 UTC

Making sure student pilots are prepared properly? Is exactly the subject I am and have been referring to. Knowing how to control a hg wing is what prevents mistakes made by pilots. Putting new pilots on a high powered tow system with minimal launching and landing skills. Is always a recipe for disaster.

Jesus H. Christ.

Ryan Voight - 2016/08/19 18:20:43 UTC

First and foremost- I am very, truly, deeply sorry for your loss. I have been around free flight for a long time, and have experienced the loss of people very near me. Logically, it always seems to come back to that they messed up... but that of course does not make it *ANY* easier to cope with, accept, or move forward without them.

Right Ziggy. Whenever somebody fatally slams in it's entirely a consequence of him or her fucking up. Instructors, schools, tow operators, junk equipment pushers, u$hPa are always one hundred percent blameless. And if someone doesn't agree with those principles, then he or she doesn't need to be involved in our sport. So Nancy's good either way - she will no longer be involved in our sport no matter what.

I'd like to thank you for your post- while some strong emotions and opinions did soak through, it is evident you are working hard to approach this in a logical manor...

Logical Manor. New Masterpiece Theatre series premiering the second Sunday in October.

...and it sounds like your major focus is doing whatever you can, whatever is necessary, so this does not happen again.

This WAS it happening again. Let's get some heads on platters.

I may not agree with everything you've said (strongly disagree with some of it, like your comments about Mitch)...

Fuck both of you and your stunt landing clinics.

...but I do not intend to argue one bit.

That's what you're really best at. Not arguing with anybody one bit. Just declaring victory and permanently walking off The Jack Show - repeatedly.

Instead, I'd like to express that I, too, share in that same objective- this was an awful thing, and let's do what we can to learn and prevent any future occurrences.

The same way we did after:
- 2015/03/27 - Kelly Harrison / Arys Moorhead
- 2016/02/02 - Tomas Banevicius
- 2016/05/21 - Jeff Bohl
to cite the other recent towing fatalities.

However- before talking about how to best move forward in a healthy, productive direction for all...

All permitted in Jack's Living Room anyway.

...it does appear there are some conflicts in what you have said, which I'm quoting below, and adding underlines to the parts needing attention:

ziggyc - 2016/08/18 22:08:22 UTC

The pilot, Nancy Tachibana, who had an H1 rating and nearly 30 tows over the past few months, was well versed in the activity and the how and when to use the quick release. There are substantial videos that show she was not only comfortable doing this, but she new what to do, and when to do it.

...

The fact is, there's a split amongst the hang gliding community over whether this is a "safe" activity for an H1 pilot or not. Hey, nothing in the air is safe. Or, rather, it's as safe as we are willing to make for ourselves and for each other.

...

And she also knew the risks, that actually added to the fun (as it does for many of you.) From what I've been told, and seen in videos, there are two safety releases in a tow. One of them is operated by the pilot. Should that safety release fail, then there is a backup which is supposed to be a fail safe. Neither of these releases functioned on Nancy's fourth flight on April 3rd, 2016. They had not been thoroughly checked, just presumed to be working. That's the job not only of the pilot, but also, more importantly, the job of the instructor, who is the last line of protection for his students. He failed. He allowed the equipment to fail.

I quoted most of the paragraphs rather than just extracting the highlighted lines, to maintain context of your words.

In summary of what you said:
- She knew what she was doing and how to do it
- She knew safety was her responsibility
- She knew the risks and willingly accepted them

Then you posit that the release(s) failed because they went unchecked. I have no information regarding this accident, so I will abstain from any speculation whether this is true or not... or if the accident was even related to a hardware malfunction in the tow release. Since your conclusion was drawn from these statements- let's assume they are accurate...

Yeah let's. We know Mission uses state-of-the-art equipment - which they won't describe on their website 'cause they don't want anyone else copying and using state of the art equipment - and from the posts and videos of their victims we know that they're using two-string "releases", which will not work under load, and Birrenators, which are known to kill people when they increase the safety of the towing operation during steep climbs and which obviously did nothing in the case of this fatal lockout.

Your concluding statement "he failed"- referring to the instructor- that really seems to jump beyond what your statements support.

OK, let's change it to "he succeeded".

If we're accepting what you said about the release not functioning, and the cause being failure to check it, please recognize that this is first and foremost the responsibility of the pilot to check and test.

1. It's a fuckin' Hang One STUDENT. Hang Ones are supposed to fly UNDER SUPERVISION.

2. Since when has hang gliding ever given a flying fuck whether or not tow release equipment...

http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3107
I have a tandem rating!!!

Lauren Tjaden - 2008/03/23 22:20:15 UTC

When Jim got me locked out to the right, I couldn't keep the pitch of the glider with one hand for more than a second (the pressure was a zillion pounds, more or less), but the F'ing release slid around when I tried to hit it. The barrel release wouldn't work because we had too much pressure on it.

Anyhow, the tandem can indeed perform big wingovers, as I demonstrated when I finally got separated from the tug.

http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3391
More on Zapata and weak link

Paul Tjaden - 2008/07/22 04:32:22 UTC

I have never had a lockout situation happen so quickly and dramatically and had no chance to release as I have always thought I could do.

...actually WORKS?

By your own statements, this pilot knew this, as well as what the consequences could be of failing to satisfy the responsibility to maintain her own safety. I agree that in the learning environment a large part of an instructor's responsibility is to provide double-duty in these responsibilities.

Your conclusion that "he failed" is not false; but it is highly incomplete. SHE failed, too. And I find it pretty hard to place blame on one individual's failure when the other individual committed the *exact same failure* for themselves (the individual with the most to lose, and greatest incentive not to fail).

Goddam right about that...

The Mission Soaring Hang Gliding school provides professional training on state-of-the-art equipment at our dedicated training site at Tres Pinos (near Hollister, CA),.. just south of the San Jose / San Francisco Bay Area.

Mission's still training students on the same state-of-the-art equipment at their dedicated training site at Tres Pinos, nobody got penalized two percent of a parking ticket. Meanwhile Brad Geary gets his tandem ticket permanently revoked for:

111-220305
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8689/17017690128_9584e79846_o.png


http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8700/17205433495_ea31ccab99_o.png
113-220710

'cause of u$hPa's zero tolerance stance on safety issues.

ziggyc - 2016/08/18 22:08:22 UTC

The instructional group, Mission Soaring Center used faulty, unchecked equipment, and ended up killing a perfectly talented and well-taught pilot.

You are accusing a group of humans of killing another human. Did you intend to throw a murder/manslaughter accusation out there?

I'd go for manslaughter in a New York minute. And don't think for a nanosecond that the thought wasn't crossing Pat's mind as he was watching his student's fatal plummet. (Kelly Harrison solved a lot of u$hPa's problems by being killed along with his victim.)

How could they have possibly killed a "perfectly talented and well-taught pilot", unless she messed up and didn't check her own release?

Same way Quest killed its last two victims - both Fours and professional pilots.

And if she did forget- couldn't you actually say she killed HERSELF?!

NOT a fucking Hang ONE.

(I do apologize, and realize how hard that will be for you to hear/realize/accept). But blaming others for the pilot's own oversight of their responsibilities is pretty hard for the rest of us to hear, too...

Let's do Arys while we're at it - the pilot u$hPa refers to as:

...his 11 year old student...

And now they and the USHPA continue to cover it up. Witnesses who were actually there, and there were at least 4 or 5 who saw what happened, have remained mum (or have been instructed to not say anything) about the whole incident.

If the pilot messed up, and her death resulted... what is there to cover up?

Nothing. Nothing to talk about either. 'Cept for...

Mark G. Forbes - 2016/04/06 16:41:47 UTC

There was a fatal crash on Sunday at the training site in Tres Pinos, near Hollister. The H1-rated pilot apparently turned away from the line, locked out and failed to release. An investigation is under way to review the facts and produce an accident report.

...why no accident report has been PRODUCED to totally absolve Mission of any responsibility for this one and emphasize what a sterling job they continue to do in the safety department.

And... what is there left to talk about??? Going only off of the information YOU have provided, and granting the assumption it is all entirely accurate, you know what caused the fatal accident. You know who could have, should have, caught it before she launched. You know that she was well aware and accepting of that responsibility, too.

You ended your post on this note- and so I'll do the same:

I wouldn't wish this kind of tragedy on anyone else. But I do hope that the community pulls together and talks about this, aims the sharp finger of responsibility (and blame), and fixes the problem

Some may regard it as semantics, but there is a difference between fault and blame. While the fault in this tragedy may be shared, ultimately the responsibility of keeping the pilot safe, falls wholly on the pilot.

How 'bout in aerotowing, Ryan?

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=31052
Poll on weaklinks

Jim Rooney - 2013/02/16 05:05:41 UTC

Ok, keyboard in hand.
I've got a bit of time, but I'm not going to write a dissertation... so either choose to try to understand what I'm saying, or (as is most often the case) don't.
I don't care.

Here's a little bit of bitter reality that ya'll get to understand straight off. I won't be sugar coating it, sorry.
You see, I'm on the other end of that rope.
I want neither a dead pilot on my hands or one trying to kill me.
And yes. It is my call. PERIOD.
On tow, I am the PIC.

Now, that cuts hard against every fiber of every HG pilot on the planet and I get that.
Absolutely no HG pilot likes hearing it. Not me, not no one. BUT... sorry, that's the way it is.
Accept it and move on.
Not only can you not change it, it's the law... in the very literal sense.

How come the Pilot In Command of an aero tow is NEVER held the least bit accountable for the one or two passengers who die behind him?

If you were making accusations that she was poorly trained, or not made away of her responsibilities, this may (perhaps) be a different conversation.

OK, I'll make it for him.

The United States Hang Gliding and Paragliding Association, Inc. - 2016/05/11
Standard Operating Procedure
12. Rating System
02. Pilot Proficiency System

06. Beginner Hang Gliding Rating (H1)

-C. Recommended Operating Limitations for Beginner Pilots flying solo:

01. Should exceed these limitations only after demonstrating complete mastery of the required Beginner tasks (above), and only after acquiring a full understanding of the potential problems and dangerous situations which may arise from exceeding these limitations.

02. It is highly recommended that all flights be made under the direct supervision of a USHPA Certified Basic or Advanced Instructor.

03. Should fly only in winds of 12 mph or less, with gust differential of 5 mph or less.

04. Should foot launch only on slopes of 3:1 to 6:1, where wind is within 15° of being straight up the slope.

05. Should launch only when there are no obstructions within 60° to either side of intended flight path, and when pilot may fly straight out from launch to landing with no need to maneuver and no possibility of over-flying the landing area.

06. Should maintain flight heading within 15° of directly into the wind.

07. Should fly appropriate sites so as to maintain altitude below 100' AGL.

A One is - BY DEFINITION - a poorly trained pilot. And it's fuckin' ABSURD to be TOWING someone who hasn't been qualified to do more than fly a glider straight into a light breeze to three hundred feet.

But you state loud and clear how educated and competent she was. You want to place blame- look no further than human error. It is tough to blame the loss of a human life on the mere fact that they were human... but that is what YOU are saying with the information provided.

Yep.

The very last thing you say is about fixing the problem. We do not agree on what that problem is. The problem I see, is that those of us left in the wake of great tragedy, are compelled to search for understanding of why and how this could happen. We feel pain, and anger, over our loss... and putting the responsibility of making us feel this way unto the deceased is grotesquely unthinkable (believe me, I get it, truly!).

I was totally cool with Rafi. Been putting out the stomp test message for years, taking all manner of stupid flak and abuse for it, he couldn't be bothered.

And so- a world is created where information regarding even the simplest of errors often does not flow freely, for fear of litigation.

Yeah. Litigation didn't exist back in the Doug Hildreth days when we we're getting lotsa good, honest, detailed reports.

Just here you have accused people of murder/mansaughter, albeit not in those words.

People who haven't crawled out from under their rocks to utter any words to discredit anything Ziggy's saying.

Is it entirely unreasonable that might frighten people away from sharing with you?

'Specially incompetent negligent motherfuckers who have really excellent reasons to be scared shitless over this one.

We have a problem, here in the U.S.- where people can sign a waiver acknowledging and accepting risks, and yet still turn around and file a lawsuit.

Ain't that a bitch.

Regardless of how likely to win that suit may be, it requires legal defense, and that is freaking expensive.

Maybe the motherfuckers who run these shoddy operations and put people up on total shit equipment, pissing all over the individuals who've worked their asses off...

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=34229
AT release

Karl Allmendinger - 2016/04/02 03:47:53 UTC

Tad Eareckson or Heath Robinson?

...to provide the solutions should bear that in mind when putting people up with paper thin safety margins.

And in this case, the party that signed that acknowledgement and acceptance has tragically passed, and so now we are left with a loved one looking for who to blame... and that anger spills over toward USHPA, toward Mitch as the ACCIDENT investigator (it was an ACCIDENT!).

Sure it was, Ryan. Just another one of those shit happens things. If Mission got a do-over they'd do it exactly the same as before because they're totally state-of-the-art - easily reachable releases, Birrenators, no guillotines. Still no guillotine - 'cause amending one now would be an acknowledgement that Nancy would've been OK if they'd had one before.

So- how do we fix the problems of having to be so reserved with talking about these things? I'll propose- don't go around saying so-and-so group KILLED her... and talking about the sharp finger of blame and it's need to point somewhere anywhere other than the person who has already paid the ultimate price for their mistake...

No. The conversation was coming along just fine and things were continuing to evolve for the better before this asshole came along and gave us the last name of the victim.

Respectfully,
Ryan Voight

Get fucked.

Respectfully,
Tad Eareckson