Gallery Of Pain
Why bother developing, considering, looking for perfect systems when we've got so much stuff that works quite adequately just about all the time when things are going reasonably well?Jim Gaar - 2012/10/08 16:36:08 UTC
No perfect system?
And everybody knows that the more experience one has the better one can control a glider during a low level lockout with one hand while he reaches and pulls his release with the other.My guess is that Joe posted a video of the guy launching off a PL to show he had "some" experience.
Bullshit.As far as the hook knife or any other emergency cutting device, they ALL have drawbacks...
- No emergency cutting device has the possibility of a drawback until/unless it's used.
- And it's a really bad idea and pretty inexcusable to let things get to the point at which an emergency cutting device needs to be used. Same deal with a weak link, helmet, or parachute.
- IF you're gonna use an emergency cutting device, tell me what the drawback is to this one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ifQk5L3Ux7U
Lemme tell ya sumpin', asshole...IF you want to trust someone with the means to cut you loose with the intention of saving your life/limb/wing I'm not going to say you can't.
WHENEVER you tie yourself to a string to go up for a soaring flight there's a possibility that the one or more persons at the other end of it will be in a position to save or kill you - with or without the means to cut you loose with the best of intentions. That's why it's NEVER a good idea or an exercise in responsible piloting to go up behind assholes like...Manned Kiting
The Basic Handbook of Tow Launched Hang Gliding
Daniel F. Poynter
1974
"A bad flyer won't hurt a pin man but a bad pin man can kill a flyer." - Bill Bennett
http://ozreport.com/9.031
Worlds - Rohan speaks
...Bill Moyes, Bobby Bailey, or...Rohan Holtkamp - 2005/02/06
The tug pilots wanted 80 kilogram weaklinks on the pilot end and that is EXACTLY what they got.
http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2467
weak links
...Jim Rooney or any of the assholes who "trained" and certified him.Jim Rooney - 2007/08/01 13:47:23 UTC
Whatever's going on back there, I can fix it by giving you the rope.
So if I can't trust him with with an emergency cutting device or front end release or weak link I can't trust him with a throttle either.
- So what you're saying is you really don't have an ability to handle a slack line situation. Maybe it's not such a great idea for you to be going up with the crap you're using.BUT what if the guy cuts you off too soon (as in you where about to release) and now you are close to the ground and dragging a line that can snag you out of the sky faster then a lockout?
- What if the guy cuts you off when the only thing that was keeping that was keeping your ass alive...
...was thrust being delivered by that tow line?Manned Kiting
The Basic Handbook of Tow Launched Hang Gliding
Daniel F. Poynter
1974
"The greatest dangers are a rope break or a premature release." - Richard Johnson
Oh, right...
That's just more of that crappy argument that being on tow is somehow safer than being off tow. Forget I mentioned anything.Jim Rooney - 2007/08/01 19:49:30 UTC
It's more of this crappy argument that being on tow is somehow safer than being off tow.
So what was stopping you from cutting yourself off?OK so the "cutter" waits a little longer into the coming lockout to cut you off.
This is so very confusing. I always thought that the guy in the glider was supposed to be equipped with some sort of device which gave him the ability to dump whatever he was tied to at his discretion.Now you are gong down wind very fast AND dragging that line!
Fuck you and your personal cup of tea, Jim.Not my personal cup of tea folks!
- Funny. I always thought it was MSL.Once the pilot gets to a "somewhat" safe altitude, let's say 500 feet agl...
- Two hundred feet is a somewhat safe altitude.
- If the fucking Pilot In Command needs to phone down requests to cut the line because he's not equipped to do the job himself he's not the fucking Pilot In Command. He's just some bozo along for the ride....then there should be NO reason to cut that line unless requested by the PIC.
- If there's an emergency which requires that the "Pilot In Command" needs to request that the line be cut he's gonna be dead before he finishes the sentence.
On NOT!!The PIC must release!!
I'm not sure. The guys at Wills Wing seem to think that we should use an appropriate weak link. And their dealers insist that we use standard aerotow weak links. And Dr. Trisa Tilletti feels we should be considering de jure, de facto, and nominal weak links to find something we can expect to break as early as possible in lockout situations, but be strong and reliable enough to avoid frequent breaks from turbulence. It's all so confusing to me.The wing launching has a proper weaklink in use right?
In a low level lockout? Good freakin' luck.Even a thrown chute might be a life saver here.
- I'm never terribly interested in the Number One Rules of assholes who can't make pronouns agree with subjects.Our number one PL rule here in the Heartland is: The Pilot In Command MUST release themselves prior to any situation that could cause them to be put into an unsafe attitude.
- People who talk about pilots releasing themselves prior to any situation that could cause them to be put into an unsafe attitude...
...are total fucking morons. (Reminds me of public safety officials who advise people to evacuate buildings prior to earthquake tremors.)Quest Air Hang Gliding
ALWAYS RELEASE THE TOWLINE before there is a problem.
Yeah, let's always think of a cutting device as a solution to the problems of someone who's just run into a thermal or dust devil.One can not rely on a cutter or cutting devise to reverse a bad launch or a lockout or running into a thermal or dust devil.
And if you DO get surprised... Hell, the pilot HAS a perfectly good three-string release doesn't he?That's why we all use checklists and prior to launch we check weather and LOOK upwind to see if the flags or tell-tails are showing us that there isn't that kind of issue. That's why we closely watch the conditions so that we can predict the cycles from surprising us as we launch right?
If you start watching at 3:50 you can see that it only takes Bob about three seconds worth of right-hand-off-the-basetube time to get to the actuator and blow tow. In an emergency it's hard to imagine that process taking any more than five or six.
- There's ALWAYS a best way to do things in this game. That's why when you start pouring money into competition gliders they all start looking like clones - no matter who the manufacturer is.There isn't a perfect right or wrong way for sure but there is risk management and it includes all these variables...
- You wanna manage risk you figure out that:
-- risk is minimized by maximizing glider control;
-- with a hand off the basetube there is no glider control worth mentioning;
-- the best person to determine when the tow needs to be aborted is the guy whose ass is on the line;
-- the guy whose ass is on the line needs to be able to get off the line without compromising or losing what control of the glider he has left.
- The "weak link" in that system is blindingly obvious and until you feel like spending a couple hundred extra bucks per glider to fix it you can shut the fuck up about right and wrong ways to do the job, risk management, and variables.
That tow system has two strikes against it before the glider gets lifted onto the rig - response time and glider control. You can get away with it for an entire flying career as long as there's no third strike thrown into the equation. Fuck up the connection, let a thermal or dust devil get by the ribbons, or launch someone who's not all he should be on flying skills...
Bullshit. Nothing in this game varies but the idiot opinions of the morons who play it. Until you can show me someone who flies better using one hand than two you can take your "YMMV!" and shove it where it belongs.YMMV!
Edited three times - and it still wouldn't pass fourth grade English muster.Last edited by Blindrodie on 2012/10/08 19:13:28 UTC; edited 3 times in total