http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=31856
Hang Glider Crash:
Red Howard - 2014/09/21 14:24:07 UTC
Campers,
The video says his flyin' days are over. I'd call that a personal tragedy for him...
Not to mention the sport.
...and I wish for him the best possible future.
His best possible future was in his past prior to impact.
Had shit to do with VG setting.
...although that item probably did not help any.
It was the lack of stall recognition...
He recognized it immediately - and immediately went from flying into stop-it-on-the-feet mode.
...and lack of stall recovery training.
How 'bout flying training? So's ya don't stall the goddam thing in the first place?
These things should be instinctive, before HG lessons even start.
Nobody should be expected to learn that life-saving knowledge in mid-air.
Bullshit. That's EXACTLY where people need to be learning shit. That's why we have training hills, dunes, scooter tows.
What a waste!
Yes.
Jack Barth - 2014/09/21 14:51:01 UTC
Looked like there were multiple other factors as well. The perfect storm.
Missing the downtube while being banked that steeply only exaggerates the problem.
Why the fuck did he need to be going for downtubes in the first place?
Having zero time to respond didn't help either.
Bullshit. He had SIX SECONDS. That's TONS of time. That's 528 feet in a car going sixty.
Based on the dust and wreckage he wasn't flying that slow.
He was tip stalled. You can't get much slower than that.
I've watched and experienced the missed downtube in windy or turbulent conditions.
Not often enough to get it through your thick skull that you didn't need to be going for your fuckin' downtubes.
Fortunately I've had enough time to recover.
I'm so happy for you - along with all the people who've remembered to do hang checks before getting on the ramp.
Others have pounded in.
No shit. How many of them needed to be going for their downtubes? Fuckin' Rooney Link of landings.
Staying prone too long.
There's no such thing as...
http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=27086
Steve Pearson on landings
Steve Pearson - 2012/03/28 23:26:05 UTC
I can't control the glider in strong air with my hands at shoulder or ear height and I'd rather land on my belly with my hands on the basetube than get turned downwind.
...staying prone too long.
Full VG and there didn't seem to be too many wind indicators avail.
I guess the windmill didn't count.
Sorry to see you leave, but understand. I gave up Sky Diving because of mistakes I made.
He didn't leave because of mistakes he made. He left because he got his brain rearranged because he had no clue what he was doing.
-
H4 (1979) Lake Elsinore. Ca. U2 160 (Sweet)
"If Your One Who Doesn't Succeed At First Maybe Hanggliding's Not For You"
Yeah, it's not like we need training programs or rating systems or anything. Just buy a topless and run off Kagel in thermal conditions on Day One. You're either Hang Four material or you aren't. Asshole.
Alan Deikman - 2014/09/21 15:15:04 UTC
Fremont
I used to cross control like that without realizing I was doing it.
Fuck it. "CROSS controlling" didn't have anything more to do with this than the goddam VG.
Fortunately thanks to a great instructor who looked at some video I had set me on the right path and I was just smart enough to listen.
Wanna tell us about the total shit instructor you had who set you on the wrong path?
Otherwise I am pretty sure I would have ended up like this pilot did sooner or later.
Seeing as how this had shit to do with cross controlling there's still hope.
That's the thing I notice about bad flying technique.
What flying technique? He let the glider stall and didn't do anything about it other than rotate up to protect his head from impact. (Really amazing he didn't break a leg or two, isn't it George?)
You can get away with it for a long time. Just like tailgating on the freeway.
Just like shit tow equipment and Rooney Link compensators.
You see people doing it all the time and they just don't seem to understand what they are doing wrong. Then one day ...
This guy still doesn't understand what he did wrong. And neither do any of you Jack Show assholes.
Mel Torres - 2014/09/21 16:15:43 UTC
Irvine
I overheard Rob McKenzie (an awesome instructor over at Andy Jackson Airpark)...
Where landing on your feet...
46-45901
http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2937/14081080220_373f64f01d_o.png
49-45904
http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3771/14081121287_b0edca7322_o.png
52-51719
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...is absolutely critical.
...saying how he practices base tube to down tube transitions in the air long before landing so as to create muscle memory.
GREAT! So let's hear from some of his students who say, "I've got this transition thing down! Muscle memory! Do it in my sleep!"
This way you minimize the chance of reaching around the rear lower wires at a critical time.
1. BULLSHIT. EVERY TIME I start going through a video frame by frame to pull stills I see wires getting snagged.
2. Oh. That was the problem with Mark here. After he stalled at six to eight meters and was riding his Airborne piano into the paddock he was snagging tail wires.
He does this because as instructor, he flys many different wings. I thinks its a great Idea.
Me too! So how come the motherfucker isn't over here talking about his great Ideas? This guy's life wasn't important enough for him to waste any of his precious unpaid time?
Glenn Zapien - 2014/09/21 16:44:51 UTC
Every learning pilot is a case by case. Each student usually requires a different method or guidance to get the light bulb to come on.
But if you can't get it to come on... What the fuck, just sign him off and sell him a hot glider, a racing harness, and a good helmet.
Sometimes, you can try everything in your toolbox to get them to understand key life saving ingredients to make a safe pilot.
Sometimes that doesn't work 'cause you're a total dickhead and the only tool in your box is a hammer.
There are cases where pilots just won't listen.
If they're PILOTS they probably don't NEED to listen. If they're STUDENTS and just won't listen then don't sign them off.
Instructor, or mentor. Every H-2 should be guided and mentored via radio as much as possible until they can visibly show without a doubt good decision making with the limited experience he or she has.
A Two is someone who's been qualified to fly damn near any high site in the country in at least sissy conditions - which was the situation here - with someone sponsoring him off at launch. He should be thoroughly wired for what he needs to be able to do before a name goes on a card.
Every take off, and landing is different.
Yeah? Show me some videos to convince me of that bullshit.
We need to get them to a point that they have a true grasp at being able to be prepared through discussion and examples until they become enlightened through experience.
They need to get experience in controlled training environments.
If more than two pilots see a problem, there usually is.
But if, like on The Jack Show here, nobody sees a problem with him attempting to go upright the instant his wing stalls then there's obviously no problem with that.
If the pilot still refuses to listen should that be the case, it will only be a matter of time before they do a crash course on it.
Right. The rating system is totally meaningless.
It takes sacrifice of yours and my flying time, but if it will keep me from standing over another dead pilot on the side of the hill...
How 'bout on a runway?
...that is a sacrifice I will choose repeatedly because its the right...
...and Christian...
...thing to do.
You think this guy didn't know what a stall was and what to do about one? If that had happened at two hundred feet do you think he wouldn't have reacted immediately and properly? He got demolished because the overwhelming amount of his training went into hardwiring him to go into narrow-dry-riverbed-with-large rocks-strewn-all-over-the-place mode whenever a ground-coming-up-fast-situation was encountered.
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Always a student.
And never a competent pilot or instructor.
That way when a weak link breaks on you, ITS A NON-ISSUE. Genius huh??? 
